| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| beli luk |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 21:44:49
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/willingham-no-more-superhero-decadence-for-me/ |
| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Toninho |
Posted - 14/01/2009 : 17:55:59
quote:
Originally posted by Emir Pasanovic
Vow, a prije godinu dana kad sam rekao da mi nakon tog intervjua, ne pada na pamet čitati takvo ideološko sranje, ustali su se forumski dušebrižnici da kažu kako sam antisemita, budala i štatijaznam. Jel to do tvog autoriteta Djole ili je ipak ovo postavljeno u pogrešan podforum?
jep jer način na koji ti komentiraš navodi ljude da te easy usporede s facom o kojoj govoriš
to je tvoj problem
fables super strip za mene
ovaj je budaletina - mislim na amera koji prav taj strip
so what
otac na službenom putu je za sva vremena a imenjak je nadmašio veliku većinu kretena i šta sad... |
| Djole |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:29:45
quote:
Originally posted by Emir Pasanovic
Vow, a prije godinu dana kad sam rekao da mi nakon tog intervjua, ne pada na pamet čitati takvo ideološko sranje, ustali su se forumski dušebrižnici da kažu kako sam antisemita, budala i štatijaznam. Jel to do tvog autoriteta Djole ili je ipak ovo postavljeno u pogrešan podforum?
Tvrdio si da su Fables pro-Izraelska propaganda, ja da nije. I dalje tvrdim da nije, da Willingham nije platnom spisku Mosada i planski sprovodi propagandu kroz Fables. Willingham ima konzervativne stavove (i to pitanju društva - baš me zanima kakav je po pitanju ekonomije) i ima puno pravo da ih plasira kroz stripove koje radi, kao što rekoh.
Tvoje je pravo da to ne čitaš (i moje - ne čitam ni ja, mada prevashodno zato što Willinghama ne volim kao scenaristu, pa tek posle zbog ideoloških opredeljenja), ali to ne znači da su Fables propaganda. |
| BlekenDekara |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:29:11
quote:
Originally posted by beli luk
ali kad ti zivot da limune, ti napravi limunadu.
prokleti strejteri...   |
| beli luk |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:13:57
Emire, nema potrebe da padas u vatru i prozivas Djoleta.
Kao sto vidis, ljudi su listom protiv Willingham-ovih shvatanja.
Gresis kad kazes za Fables da je ideolosko sranje, strip nema trunku ideoloske pristranosti, cak i ta epizoda sa Izraelom strci k`o govno iz bare. Stavise, to je jedan od najboljih i najmastovitijih stripova koje sam citao. Probaj, cisto da smiris neke svoje strasti. I mene boli sto je covek toliki kreten a pise tako dobar strip, ali kad ti zivot da limune, ti napravi limunadu. |
| Emir Pasanovic |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 11:53:23
Vow, a prije godinu dana kad sam rekao da mi nakon tog intervjua, ne pada na pamet čitati takvo ideološko sranje, ustali su se forumski dušebrižnici da kažu kako sam antisemita, budala i štatijaznam. Jel to do tvog autoriteta Djole ili je ipak ovo postavljeno u pogrešan podforum? |
| Mailman |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 10:49:20
Očito je konzervativan kreten.
A Fables su i dalje možda najbolji strip na svijetu. |
| Djole |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 01:39:14
Tja, posle kolumne koja je povod za ovaj topik, sumnjam da je text pogrešno tumačen. Okej, moje tumačenje sa zlim Arapima je pregrubo, ali ipak mi Willinghamova ratobornost deluje očigledno. |
| Le Samourai |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 01:36:06
Ma slazhem se sa tobom, i ni ja se ideoloshki ne slazhem sa njim, ali mislim da je ovaj konkretan tekst malo pogreshno protumachen. A mozhda i greshim, jer su mi Fables dragi, pa bih voleo da greshim. |
| Djole |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 00:33:13
A koliko vidim, deo iz (verovatno kasnijeg) intervjua koji si citirao samo kaže da Fables nisu pro-Izraelska propaganda. I nisu, za propagandu neko plaća, a ovo je Willinghamov lični stav.
Da se razumemo, Willingham ima pravo da piše šta god hoće - mislim da sam to rekao i kada se ovaj intervju prvi put pojavio kao tema na forumu. Pro Israeal? Fine by me. American way Superman? Go right ahead. Conservative Captain America? No problem. On neka piše, ja ne moram (i neću) da čitam.
Ono što mi smeta je nametanje my way is the right way. Institucija patriotizma (a kamoli nacionalizma) nije ugrađena u savremeni koncept super-herojskog stripa, i njeno nametanje kao norme je ideja koja mi se ne dopada. |
| Djole |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 00:28:19
Ciljao sam na ovo:
DEPPEY: In an interview that you did for a website called Pop Culture Shock, you equated the basic concept behind Fables to the Jewish Diaspora; you've got characters who originally lived in the Land of Fable and then a great adversary rose up and drove them out, and now they kind of live in little ghettos in pockets around our world. I'm wondering if that was an intentional building block from the beginning, or did the metaphor rise up over time as you developed the concept?
WILLINGHAM: No, that was there from the beginning. As I said, I was raised in a pretty conservative family. My parents were both Scoop Jackson Democrats, which by today's standard would make them, you know, horrid old conservative Republicans. The other aspect of that was that my mother, for reasons that still I do not understand, was rabidly pro-Israel. The only big trip she even wanted to take in her life but she never got to was to go to Israel, and I didn't understand it as a kid, but growing up, the whole story of how the modern nation came about with the partition and the wars and all that -- and just this whole story of the tiny little country with being surrounded on all sides by these vast, vast nations dedicated to its extinction -- I guess it appealed to my mother's sense of "root for the underdog" and if there's any underdog in this world, Israel's it. So I think I just absorbed my mother's love of Israel. Politically, I'm just rabidly pro-Israel and so that, as a metaphor, was intended from the beginning. As a matter of fact, since this interview will be coming out after issue #50, there's a scene in which it's actually stated as fact that Fabletown's battle against the vast Empire, the Adversary, is very much like Israel against the Arab nations. A scrappy little country full of stiff-necked bastards who, the only way we're gonna protect our existence is to make sure that anytime you do anything bad to us, we're going to make you pay horribly. I use that as a formal analogy for the existence of Fabletown and their relationships to the Empire. So that's a roundabout way of saying that yes, that was in there purposely. |
| Le Samourai |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 00:06:22
quote:
Originally posted by Djole
Drugo - i to je najveći problem, Willingham jeste militantni kreten. Bilo je ovde na forumu pre neku godinu priče o intervjuu u kome je spomenuo da su Fables u stvari njegovo viđenje borbe Izreala protiv zlih Arapa.
Mislim da si ga pogreshno protumachio. Evo ti upravo taj odlomak iz intervjua gde pricha o tome, gde govori da Fables upravo nisu njegovo vidjenje borbe Izraela protiv zlih Arapa:
AVC: You’ve come under fire for the series’ politics at times, like … having Bigby Wolf lay out the parallels between Fabletown and Israel. Does it surprise you when people get upset about these things? Do you see them as controversial when you’re writing them?
BW: The Israel analogy, probably at the time I was writing that, I thought it would be controversial, because just the mention of Israel in any context is a hot-button issue. But once again, I thought even the people upset that that analogy was used understood the analogy. Bigby made his point of the little guy with vast forces arrayed against him. Some wackos online who don’t sign their name to what they write have said that I’m a mouthpiece for Israeli propaganda, and things like that. A paid mouthpiece, which would be wonderful. I haven’t gotten any pay yet, but if any of my Israeli commanders are listening, the checks arriving would be a nice thing. So, yeah, the controversy on that didn’t surprise me, the Israel thing. A little more heated than I expected, but then most things are.
AVC: You’ve said in the past interviews that you’re unequivocally pro-Israel. Do you think of Fables as communicating a political message, or as being persuasive in any way?
BW: No, I actually thought that that would be the best example in politics today to use as an example. Maybe my fondness for Israel helped in deciding that that was a good example to use, but no, Fables is not didactic in any way. At least, not intentionally. I don’t expect people to read that issue, bop themselves in the head, and say, “Oh my God, I’ve been so stupid about my politics in Middle Eastern affairs. I’m going to change my tune right now, because, Bigby would want me to.” I don’t expect anything like that, and I wouldn’t put that line in almost any other character’s mouth, just because I couldn’t imagine other characters thinking along those lines. Whereas Bigby was a guy who we’ve already established that historically, he went to war several times, and was involved in World War I and II. He would be the type of character who would think along those lines. |
| Djole |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 23:11:57
Hehehe.... do skora sam ga ignorisao. I plan to keep on doing that. ;) |
| manhunter |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:47:39
Što lažeš, do skoro si ga hvalio i dizao u nebesa.
Kako se okrećeš kako vetar duva... |
| Djole |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:45:27
Okej, onda samo da kažem da se slažem sa naslovom topika, a pride i ne cenim Willinghama kao scenaristu, i toliko od mene. ;) |
| manhunter |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:38:07
quote:
Originally posted by Djole
I treće - sve je ovo bezveze. Willingham samo udara reklamu za svoj upcoming run na Justice society of America. Reč je ipak o čoveku koji je svojevremeno rekao da nema nićeg boljeg za prodaju stripa nego kad publika po internet forumima nadaleko i histerično raspravlja kako ga - mrzi. Dakle, kontroverze kao marketing.
Yep, svojevremeno sam nešto slično rekao za ono necenzurisano izdanje Batmana(?), koje se "greškom" pojavilo u prodaji, sa sve sisama i heavy language...
Inače, momci, don`t go too far, nije free game   |
| Djole |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:33:35
Okej, tema nije zaključana, pretpostavljam da je rasprava free game.
Prvo, kasno Willingham na... ummm...pa, kasni. Moore, Waid, Morrison i mnogi drugi već deceniju pričaju da je dosta grim & gritty priče, i da nam trebaju svetlije priče (i onda Waid napiše kukavni Kingdom Come, Morrison mrak od sadašnjeg Batmana, a Moore drugu LOEG - ali ajde). Dakle, dosta dekadencije super-heroja? Žao mi je, pametniji ljudi su to odavno napisali.
Drugo - i to je najveći problem, Willingham jeste militantni kreten. Bilo je ovde na forumu pre neku godinu priče o intervjuu u kome je spomenuo da su Fables u stvari njegovo viđenje borbe Izreala protiv zlih Arapa. Ne čudi što sada povezuje povratak super-herojskim idealima sa povratkom patriotizmu (John Byrne bi bio ponosan). Kao da ti ideali nisu univezalni, nego samo jedna nacija polaže prava na njih.
I treće - sve je ovo bezveze. Willingham samo udara reklamu za svoj upcoming run na Justice society of America. Reč je ipak o čoveku koji je svojevremeno rekao da nema nićeg boljeg za prodaju stripa nego kad publika po internet forumima nadaleko i histerično raspravlja kako ga - mrzi. Dakle, kontroverze kao marketing.
To po strani, DC beži od kontroverzi kao đavo od krsta, tako da me ne bi čudili da ga šutnu posle ovoga. We should be so lucky. |
| beli luk |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:32:36
Meni su Fables genijalni, skroz sam se nalozio da sacekam HC kolekcije pa da pocnem da kupujem.
Neverovatno mi je da neko ovakvih politickih stavova moze da napise takav strip.
Zivis i ucis, aj ges... |
| manhunter |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:28:43
Ah ok, nisam pažljivo čitao. Mislio sam da je ovo što sam gore quotovao bilo kritički rečeno, više ironično.
Ako to stvarno misli onda ne znam..
A Fables su sasvim ok, ne bih sad da idem u stavove..;-) |
| beli luk |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:24:16
Ne bas. Taj retard je u njegovom "taboru".
Procitaj originalni clanak, http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bwillingham/2009/01/09/superheroes-still-plenty-of-super-but-losing-some-of-the-hero/
Willingham zapocinje krstaski rat da superheroji postanu americki brend, i da budu mega ponosni na to, i da kad god mogu to potenciraju.
Ma idiot, sad ce mi biti jos veca knedla dok citam Fables. Njegov pro-izraelski stav, plus ovo, ne verujem da cu davati pare za njegove stripove. |
| manhunter |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:18:39
Ma daj svaka čast čoveku. Pogledaj molim te pitanje od nekog "znalca":
Is it America’s fault Belgium doesn’t produce comic books?” asks another commenter.
Ako je njegova namera bila da pobegne od takvih ljudi/čitalaca, ja ga sasvim razumem. |
| beli luk |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:12:46
He, mislio sam da ces da me banujes. Znam da sam zasluzio, ali ovo mi je stvarno neverovatno.
Pogledajte samo komentare, jadan Kurt Busiek se sav zauzeo za Willingham-a.
Meni je ovo stvarno neverovatno, covek je totalni kreten. |
| manhunter |
Posted - 11/01/2009 : 22:08:48
He goes on to say that while he’ll continue to explore “gray areas” in books like Fables, the superhero genre should be “different, better, with higher standards, loftier ideals and a more virtuous — more American — point of view.”
Ne vidim problem?
;-) |
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