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realist
Senior Member



Croatia
1206 Posts

Member since 09/09/2003

Posted - 18/04/2004 : 19:04:16  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send realist a Private Message
OK,procitali ste Moore-ovog Watchmen-a.Svidio vam se.Jako vam se svidio.E sad,koliko je vas skinulo Watchmen Guide s Interneta i krenulo u ponovno citanje proucavajuci svaku pojedinost svakog panela?Ima li to smisla?Da li je uzitak još veci nego prvi put?Meni je recimo zanimljiva cinjenica da su Rorschahove teroristicke metode preuzete iz filmova o Pink Pantheru...

Djole
stripovi.com suradnik



Serbia
11876 Posts

Member since 03/11/2002

Posted - 18/04/2004 : 22:09:31  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Uvek ima smisla. Pogledaj LOEG. To je jedan strip ovako, a drugi sa vodicem. E sad, pitanje je raspoloživog vremena....

Nice and smooth.
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torca
Average Member



746 Posts

Member since 24/03/2003

Posted - 18/04/2004 : 22:43:43  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send torca a Private Message
procita san anotacije sandmana, watchmena i loeg. ima dosta zanimljivih stvari, ali isto tako mislin da je sve to nepotrebno preopsirno pa mi je na momente bilo naporno i izgledalo ka da je napisano za nekog ko nikad nije procita niti jednu stranicu tih stripova.

nikad mi nije palo na pamet da ce to neko usporedjivat stranicu po stranicu sa stripon. osobno ne vidin nikakvu potencijalnu satisfakciju u tome.
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik



Serbia
11876 Posts

Member since 03/11/2002

Posted - 18/04/2004 : 23:02:35  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Tjah. Ima raznih. A recimo citajuci anotacije za The Invisibles, naleteo sam na par lovkraftovskih citata koji su im promakli.

Sve zavisi od toga ko piše anotacije i od toga koji je strip u pitanju. Smešno mi je kada vidim da recimo pstoje anotacije i za Bendisovog Daredevila, ili za, ni manje ni više Cherry jubilee. :) S druge strane, kada je rec o viktorijanskom stripu ciji je sam SMISAO citiranje, a niko odavde nije citao sve što je Moore citirao, ili o serijalu koji u velikoj meri pociva na pop i subculture postulatima, kao što je The Invisibles, mislim da su anotacije nužnost. Sandman je s druge strane više emotivno orijentisan, i Morfejeva smrt ce sasvim lepo funkcionisati cak i ako se ne secate zašto pri kraju Dream nudi veknu hleba Smrti. S Watchmen je slicna situacija. Funckioniše odlicno i bez anotacija, a ko hoce, može da ceprka dalje.

Nice and smooth.
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torca
Average Member



746 Posts

Member since 24/03/2003

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 02:55:07  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send torca a Private Message
slazen se da nekad ima smisla. na kraju krajeva ne bi sve to procita da smatran gubljenjen vrimena (a fala bogu ima tu materijala). medjutim ostajen kod svog da je dosta toga nepotrebno. cisto za primjer, samo uvod i anotacije naslovnice i 1. stranice watchmena:

Certain notes are true for each issue. Each one is written by
Alan Moore, drawn and lettered by Dave Gibbons, and colored by John
Higgins.
Moreover, each issue has a continuing motif, a reoccuring object
or pattern that is seen on the cover, the first and last page (usually),
and throughout the issue. This issue's motif is the blood-spattered
smiley-face button.
Another trend is the title, which is always an excerpt from an
apropos quote shown in its entirety in the last panel. This issue's title is
from Bob Dylan's "Desolation Row."
The clock appearing on the covers counts the minutes to
midnight, similar to the clock in the _Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists_,
which is an estimate of the world's closeness to nuclear war. The clock
stands at 11 minutes to midnight, and advances by one minute per issue.

Cover: First appearance of the blood-spattered smiley-face button.
The button belonged to the Comedian, who we first see in flashback on
page 2. The shape of the blood stain reappears in issues 11 and 12.

Page 1, panel 1: The narration is an excerpt from Rorschach's
journal. We will see the journal later in the series.

The blood is from the Comedian.

Panel 4: Possible symbolism: "Followed in the footsteps" as the sign
man tracks the blood on the sidewalk. Rorschach believes his father was
a war hero (see issue 6). He sees President Truman as a good man,
hard-working and honest; possibly his ordering the nuking of Hiroshima has
something to do with this, too.

Truman: Harry S Truman, President of the U.S. from 1945 to 1953,
taking office after the death of Franklin Roosevelt and elected to a second
term in 1948. He presided over the end of WWII, and ordered the atomic
bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His image is generally of a sincere man,
who did what was necessary to end the war and served a good if
undistinguished term afterwards.

Panel 5: The vehicle with the triangle in the circle belongs to
Pyramid Deliveries. The triangle is a continuing theme; its significance
will be learned later on. Pyramid Deliveries is owned by Adrian Veidt
(Ozymandias); he seems to be everywhere in this series.

If the vehicles appear strange, it's because they are electrically
powered.

Panel 7: The first appearance of Joe Bourquin, who is a continuing
character.


ma dajte ljudi, iskreno, jel sve to triba nekome ko je procita strip?
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik



Serbia
11876 Posts

Member since 03/11/2002

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 07:34:56  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
O, meni su mnogo bolji primer anotacije Jessa Nevinsa za LOEG. Evo recimo anotacija za prve dve strane New Travller Almanaca, dodatka koji je išao uz Ligu V. 2 ...


quote:
"The New Traveller's Alamanac: Chapter Two"
aka Alan Moore's attempt to kill me

Page 25. “Landed in Philomela's kingdom...”
This is a reference to Samuel Gott's Novae Solymae libri sex (1648), in which Philomela robbed and murdered her guests as described here.

"We passed by the Capa Blanca Isles, where bullfighting occurs, a beastly sport which some animal-lover really should persuade them to abandon."
The Capa Blanca Isles appear in Hugh Lofting's The Voyages of Doctor Dolittle (1923). In that novel Dr. John Dolittle persuaded the bulls to chase a matador from the slaughter ring and then perform various tricks, winning the crowd and effecting the abolition of bullfighting. Dennis Power makes the point that the events of The Voyages of Doctor Dolittle are set "many years ago," and so bullfighting must have made a comeback between the time that Dr. Dolittle visited the islands and the time of Mina's visit. David Goldfarb suggests that Lofting got the name from Cuban chess champion Jose Raul Capablanca, who won the world title in 1921.

"Further south was Mayda, Island of the Seven Cities..."
Mayda, Island of the Seven Cities, appears in Washington Irving's The Alhambra (1832). Mayda is inhabited by the descendants of Portuguese who fled Portugal in 734 to escape the Moors. Mayda's cathedrals built of basalt and decorated with many golden ornaments.

"...nor upon Nut Island, though we saw that island's fishermen, Nutanauts..."
Nut Island and the Nutanauts come from Lucian of Samosata's True History (2nd century C.E.). The True History has accounts of places on Earth but is notable for being the earliest science fiction space travel novel.

"East lay the coast of Coromandel, a small independent country on the edge of Portugal, where was raised the castle of a locally-famed nobleman, the Yonghi-Bonghi of Bo."
Coromandel and the Yonghi-Bonghi of Bo are from Edward Lear's "The Courtship of Yonghy-Bonghy-Bn" (1877), one of Lear's great nonsense rhymes.

"The Milanese magus Duke Prospero..."
Prospero, revealed in League v2 #1 to have been the leader of the first League, is from Shakespeare's The Tempest (1611).

"...an Isle called Lanternland..."
Lanternland, and the glowing Lords and Ladies, are from Le Voyage de navigation que fist Panurge, disciple de Pantagruel, aux isles incognues et éstranges de plusieurs choses merveilleuses et difficiles r croire, qu'il dict avoir veues, dont il fait narration en ce présent volume, et plusieurs aultres joyeusetez pour inciter les lecteurs et audietues r rire (Anonymous, 1538), and then again in François Rabelais' Le cinquiesme et dernier livre des faicts et dicts du bon Pantagruel, auquel est contenu la visitation de l'Oracle de la dive Bacbuc, et le mot de la bouteille; pour lequel avoir est entrepris tout ce long voyage (Five Books of the Lives, Heroic Deeds and Sayings of Gargantua and His Son Pantagruel, 1564). Gargantua was a giant of medieval Celtic and Gallic legend which Rabelais adapted for his satirical works, which hold up surprisingly well as comedy, even today. Philip Cohen says,

That translation is the name given to the collection of all five of Rabelais's books in the Urquhart and Motteux translation. I can't find the 1538 book on the Web but the fact that the pays Lanternois is mentioned in chapters 1, 5, 6, and 8 of the 4th book, published in short form in 1548, makes me wonder if the 1538 book was by Rabelais hiding from condemnation. Can't find my dead-tree copy to investigate further. Anyhoo, the translations of the titles are, roughly: 'The journey that Panurge, disciple of Pantagruel, made to unknown and strange islands and several marvelous and hard-to-believe things which he claims to have seen, of which he tells in this present volume, and several other jests to incite readers and hearers to laughter' and 'The fifth and final book of the deeds and sayings of the good Pantagruel, in which is contained the visit to the Oracle of the divine Bacbuc, and the word of the bottle, for which this whole long voyage was undertaken'.

"We found an Isle called Lanternland by some, where great Demosthenes burned midnight oil, and putting in to shore at my command upon its soil saw men to glow-worms turned; each Lord and Lady dressed with glass and gem that caught the shine of wanton candle-flame. Jewelled crest and diamond hem, blazing they pass, no two the same, their radiance near divine."
Ryan Laws points out that Prospero's journal is in properly-Shakespearean iambic pentameter, albeit slightly off the ten-beat line. The preceding entry can be broken down like so:
We found an Isle called Lanternland by some
Where great Demosthenes burned midnight oil
And putting in to shore at my command
Upon its soil saw men to glow-worms turned;
Each Lord and Lady dressed with glass and gem
That caught the shine of wanton candle-flame.
Jewelled crest and diamond hem, blazing they pass
No two the same, their radiance near divine.

"Not far away an oracle is found; a bottle in a crypt upon an isle where did sweet Bachus make a vineyard grow. The bottle speaketh with a cracking sound, and I did like its augurs not at all."
The Oracle in the Bottle is from Five Books of the Lives, Heroic Deeds and Sayings of Gargantua and His Son Pantagruel.

"...past the Lotus-Eater's land of yellow sand and endless afternoon..."
The Island of the Lotus-Eaters is from Homer's Odyssey (and, as Steve Higgins points out and which I should have caught, Alfred, Lord Tennyson's "The Lotos Eaters"). The Lotus Eaters feed on lotus blooms and in so doing become inured to the concerns of mortals. Lang Thompson notes that the Lotophagi, lotus eaters, appear in Herodotus, who said they feed on the fruit, not the blooms. Philip Cohen quibbles with my use of the word "inured" and prefers "become immune to" or "forget" or "lose."

"...Ogygia too we passed..."
Ogygia is from Homer's Odyssey. Ogygia was the island on which the nymph Calypso lived.

"...This ring-shaped island, that is called only 'Her'..."
The island of Her and its silent swan are from Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien (Gestures and Opinions of Dr. Faustroll, Pataphysician, 1911). Jarry's work is scabrous, foul, and brilliant; it's hard to say it's about anything, though.

"...a Cyclops is, one of that fearsome breed whereof Odysseus spake..."
In Homer's Odyssey Odysseus outwitted a Cyclops.

"...past the Imaginary Isle..."
The Imaginary Isle is from Anne Marie Louise Henriette d'Orléans, Duchesse de Montpensier's Rélation de L'Isle Imaginaire (Relation of the Imaginary Island, 1659). (By Montpensier, unless her husband Jean Segrais wrote it instead.) L'Isle Imaginaire is a Utopia burlesquing France.

"...a pois'nous land called the Great Garabagne..."
The Great Garabagne is from Henri Michaux's Voyage en Grande Garabagne (Voyage to Grand Garabagne, 1936); Great Garabagne is a land where each traveller meets his own monsters and despairs.

"Next we came to Aiolio..."
Aiolio appears in Homer's Odyssey. Aiolos Hippotades is the King of the Winds and keeps violent winds in ox-skin sacks.

"...the mountain Animas raised up near Soria, where once Knights Templar walked."
The mountain Animas, aka Monte de las Animas, aka Mountain of the Spirits, appears in Gustavo Becquer's "El Monte de las ánimas" (The Mountain of the Spirits, 1871). The Monte de las Animas was a former stronghold of the Templars before the Castilians slaughtered the Knights.

"Beyond the straits verdant Anostus lay..."
Anostus appears in Claudius Aelianus' Varia Historia (2nd century C.E.).

"Portugal has the republic of Andorra..."
Andorra (the fictional concept, not the country) is from Max Frisch's Andorra (1961), about a violently pro-Christian and anti-Semitic country in the Pyrenees.

"More interestingly, in Spain's La Mancha provice, is the landbound island, Barataria, where twenty years before Prospero's voyage a squire named Sancho Panza ruled, albeit only for a week. Not far from Barataria we find a grotto, Montesinos' Cave, the sole account of which is that of Panza's master, Don Quixote..."
La Mancha, Barataria, Sancho Panza, Montesino's Cave, and Don Quixote are all from Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra's El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de La Mancha (The Ingenious Noble, Don Quixote de la Mancha, 1605-1615).

Page 26. "...the tomb of the hero Durandarte..."
Although the tomb of Durandarte appears in Don Quixote de La Mancha, Durandarte is part of medieval Spanish myth, and was supposedly killed at the Battle of Roncesvalles; for more information, read Le Chanson de Roland.

“...the willfully eccentric country Exopotomania...”
Exopotomania appears in Boris Vian's L'Automne r Pékin (The Fall of Peking, 1956), a novel about a desert Utopia.

"Further east is Andrographia..."
Andrographia is from Nicolas Edme Restif de la Bretonne's L'Andrographe ou idées d'un honnete homme sur un projet de réglement proposé r toutes les nations de l'Europe pour opérer une réforme générale des moeurs, et par elle, le bonheur du genre humain avec des notes historiques et justificatives (The andrographe or ideas of an honest man on a regulation project proposed to all the Europe nations to operate a general reformation of the morals, and by her, the happiness of the mankind with historic and supporting grades, 1782). de la Bretonne was a French author who wrote a little bit of science fiction, a lot of pornography, and still more rubbish. I'll leave it to you to guess which category this book falls into. Philip Cohen says that this is a better translation: "Better: The andrographer, or ideas of an honest man on a scheme of regulations proposed to all the nations of Europe to produce a general reform of morality and thereby the happiness of mankind, with historical and supporting notes."

"...the iron-clad castle of the 16th century sorcerer Atlante..."
Atlante's castle appears in Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando Furioso (1516), one of the great medieval epics.

"Next comes a Pyrenean city that apparently cannot be named for reasons of what is puzzlingly described as 'theological security.' Its southern half contains a mansion, Triste-le-Roy, reached by committing murders at the three points of a mystic triangle..."
The city which cannot be named, and the mansion Triste-le-Roy, are from Jorge Luis Borges' "La Muerte y la brújula" (Death and the compass, 1956).

"...we pass the garrulous land of Auspasia..."
Auspasia, the noisiest and most talkative nation in the world, appears in Georges Duhamel's Lettres d'Auspasie (Letters from Auspasia, 1922) and La dernier voyage de Candide (The Last Voyage of Candide, 1938).

"...to reach Bengodi..."
Bengodi, and its Parmesan cheese, appear in Giovanni Boccaccio's Decameron (1353), a very influential collection of Italian stories, some of which were later used by Chaucer in his Canterbury Tales.

"...there are also gemstones unique to Bengodi, including an invisibility-bestowing heliotrope used in the first experiments of Hawley Griffin."
The heliotrope has traditionally been seen as an item which grants invisibility. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable defines the heliotrope as

Apollo loved Clytie, but forsook her for her sister Leucothoe. On discovering this, Clytie pined away; and Apollo changed her at death to a flower, which, always turning towards the sun, is called heliotrope. (Greek, "turn-to-sun.")
According to the poets, heliotrope renders the bearer invisible. Boccaccio calls it a stone, but Solinus says it is the herb. "Ut herba ejusdem nominis mixta et prccantationibus legitimis conscecrata, eum, a quocunque gestabitur, subtrahat visibus obviorum." (Georgic, xi.)

Philip Cohen says,

For those with less Latin than Brewer expected of his readers, this means something like 'So the herb of the same name, brewed and consecrated with the proper incantations, removes whoever it is carried by from the sight of passersby.'
"No hope had they of crevice where to hide,
Or heliotrope to charm them out of view."
Dante: Inferno, xxiv.
In Novel iii of the Eighth Day of the Decameron the heliotrope is described as "a kind of stone in the Mugnone which renders whoso carries it invisible to every other soul in the world."
In Wells' Invisible Man there is no evidence of a heliotrope in Griffin's first experiments (although Griffin surely qualifies as an unreliable narrator). By his own account, he discovered invisibility in this way:

I will tell you, Kemp, sooner or later, all the complicated processes. We need not go into that now. For the most part, saving certain gaps I chose to remember, they are written in cypher in those books that tramp has hidden. We must hunt him down. We must get those books again. But the essential phase was to place the transparent object whose refractive index was to be lowered between two radiating centres of a sort of ethereal vibration, of which I will tell you more fully later. No, not these Röntgen vibrations--I don't know that these others of mine have been described. Yet they are obvious enough. I needed two little dynamos, and these I worked with a cheap gas engine.
JoeyBags notes, "While it's true that there's no evidence of heliotrope in the novel, for some reason Heliotrope is a major ingredent in Universal's The Invisible Man, directed by James Whale and starring Claude Rains (1933)."
"...close to the Balearic Islands is Trypheme..."
Trypheme appears in Pierre Louys's Les Aventures du Roi Pausole (The Adventures of King Pausole, 1900). In the novel Trypheme operates much as described here.

"North, within French territory, is Papafiguiera..."
Papafiguiera, or Papefiguiera, is from Béroualde de Verville's Le Moyen de parvenir. Oeuvre contenant la raison de tout ce qui a esté, est, et sera, avec démonstrations certaines et nécessaires selon la rencontre des effets de vertu (The Means to reach. Work containing the reason of all this that has been, is, and will be, with certain and necessary demonstrations according to the encounter of the virtue effects, 1610). Le Moyen de Parvenir was one of a number of late Renaissance French menippean satires. Philip Cohen says

Better: 'The way to succeed. A work containing the reason for everything that was, is, and will be, with sure and necessary proofs according to the encounter of the effects of virtue.' Both translations seem to be missing some point starting with 'according to' but I can't figure out anything better.
"These include Ptyx, Bran Isle..."
Ptyx and Bran Isle both appear in Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien.
"...Clerkship..."
The island of Clerkship appears in François Rabelais' Le quart livre des faicts et dicts du bon Pantagruel (1552).

"...Laceland..."
Laceland is from Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien.

"...Leaveheavenalone..."
The island of Leaveheavenalone is from Charles Kingsley's The Water Babies (1863).

"...Breadlessday..."
Breadlessday appears in François Rabelais' Le cinquiesme et dernier livre des faicts et dicts du bon Pantagruel.

"Amorphous Island..."
Amorphous Island appears in Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien.

"Ruach, the 'Windy Island'..."
Ruach appears in François Rabelais' Le quart livre des faicts et dicts du bon Pantagruel.

"In between are Cyril Island (a self-propelled volcano that is currently the home of Captain Kidd)..."
Cyril Island is from Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien. In the novel the island is the home of Captain Kidd.

"...the Fortunate Islands (which include the Isle of Butterflies..."
The Fortunate Islands and the Isle of Butterflies are from Le Voyage de navigation que fist Panurge, disciple de Pantagruel.

"...Fragrant Island..."
Fragrant Island is from Alfred Jarry's Gestes et Opinions du Docteur Faustroll, Pataphysicien.

"...the pie-island Pastemolle..."
Pastemolle appears in Le Voyage de navigation que fist Panurge, disciple de Pantagruel.

"...Thermometer Island..."
Thermometer Island appears in Denis Diderot's Les Bijoux Indiscrets (The Indiscreet Jewels, 1748). Diderot, the famous encyclopedist and philosopher, also wrote erotica, which Les Bijoux Indiscrets is.

"...the flower-carpeted peninsula of Flora..."
Flora appears in Ferdinand Raimund's "Die gefesselte Phantasie" (The Bound Imagination, 1837), a dramatic fairytale.

"North is Lubec, a town in south Provence founded by colonists from Thermometer Island, with all the genital peculiarities so common in that place."
Lubec is from Béroualde de Verville's Le Moyen de parvenir. There is no textual link between de Verville's work and Diderot's. In Lubec, as mentioned, the genitalia of men are removed and stored in the Town Hall. On Thermometer Island the genitalia of men and women are peculiarly and geometrically shaped, but not removed.

"Trinquelage..."
The castle of Trinquelage appears in Alphonse Daudet's Lettres de mon moulin (Letters from my mill, 1866), a collection of mostly-humorous stories about Daudet's native Provence.

"...to the west is Nameless Castle..."
Nameless Castle is from Denis Diderot's Jacques le fataliste et son maître (Jacques the Fatalist and his Master, 1796), a comedy about a servant and the man he served.

"...the kingdom of Poictesme, guarded by the Fellows of the Silver Stallion."
Poictesme appears in the works of James Branch Cabell, most notably Jurgen (1919), in which the Fellowship of the Silver Stallion appears. Jurgen is a brilliant satirical comedy set in a fantasy Europe.

"A like-named group exists in modern Nimes..."
I am unaware of another Fellowship of the Silver Stallion aside from Cabell's.

"Further west, in what is now Auvergne, we have a medieval province that shared borders with Poictesme, known as Averoigne."
Averoigne is from the outstanding stories of Clark Ashton Smith, among which was "A Rendezvous in Averoigne" (1931). Smith is a criminally-underrated fantasy writer, with Averoigne being one of the locations of his stories.

"...the subterranean Grande Euscarie..."
Grande Euscarie appears in Luc Alberny's Le Mammoth Bleu (The Blue Mammoth, 1935).

"...where the buried kingdoms of the Fatipuffs and Thinnifers are found."
The kingdoms of the Fattipuffs and the Thinnifers appear in André Maurois' Patapoufs et Filifers (1930), one of Maurois' juvenalia.

"...we find Baron Hugh's Castle..."
Baron Hugh's Castle appears in the 1942 film Les Visiteurs du soir (The Visitors in the Evening), a romance about two minstrels sent by the Devil to tempt the desperate and unswary. David Cairns noted that Les Visiteurs du soir was written by Jacques Prevert and that "French audiences at the time took the still-beating hearts of the statues to be a symbol of the heart of France under the Nazi occupation. This symbolism, not consciously intended by Prevert, escaped the Nazi censors."

"...the modest and agrarian republic Calejava, founded by one Dr. Ava in the 1600s upon communitarian ideals, described by Mina Murray in her journal notes as 'scrupulously fair; screamingly dull.'"
Calejava and Dr. Ava are from Claude Gilbert's Histoire de Calejava ou de l'Ilse des Hommes Raisonnables, avec le Paralelle de leur Morale et du Christianisme (History of Calejava or the Island of Reasonable Men, with the Parallel of their Morals and Christianity, 1700). The reason that Mina finds Calejava so dull is that there are no forms at all of entertainment in Calejava, it being a communitarian, work-oriented Utopia. Philip Cohen again corrects me, or rather the source I used: "Histoire de Calejava, ou de l'isle [n.b.] des hommes raisonnables, avec le parallcle [n.b.] de leur morale et du christianisme."

"...the sunken city Belesbat..."
Murderous Belesbat appears in Claire Kenin's La Mer mystérieuse (The Mysterious Sea, 1923).

"...a separate sunken city (named by its discoverers as, simply, 'Disappeared')..."
The sunken city of Disappeared appears in Victor Hugo's "La Ville disparue" (The Disappeared City, 1859).

"...the Atlantean colony, Atlanteja..."
Atlanteja appears in Luigi Motta's Il tunnel sottomarino (The Undersea Tunnel, 1927).

"...outposts of the Streaming Kingdom..."
The Streaming Kingdom, mentioned in the Almanac in League v2 #1, appeared in Jules Superveille's L'enfant de la haute mers (1931).

"...we passed above Le Douar..."
Le Douar appeared in J.H. Rosny (jeune)'s L'Enigme du "Redoutable" (The Enigma of the "Redoubtable," 1930).


Zaista, kome sve to treba? ;)

Nice and smooth.
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torca
Average Member



746 Posts

Member since 24/03/2003

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 11:33:52  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send torca a Private Message
ok, no ovo su sasvim drugacije stvari, reference na druga djela i to je zapravo ono o cemu san pisa da mi je zanimljivo. u konkretnom slucaju se radi prije o mooreovom sadizmu nego o literarnoj zagonetki al bez obzira to sad sigurno ima smisla. prepricavanje sadrzaja nema.

anotacije za v.2 nisan cita jer nazalost jos nisan procita ni strip, al sigurno ih je radilo dosta ljudi. pogledaj popis autora za v.1, ima zanimljivih imena.
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik



Serbia
11876 Posts

Member since 03/11/2002

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 21:02:37  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Moguce, ali ja sam citao samo Nevinsove. Covek je cak izdao knjigu sa anotacijama za V. 1, "Hereoes and monsters, the unofficial guide to LOEG"...

Nice and smooth.
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torca
Average Member



746 Posts

Member since 24/03/2003

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 23:12:27  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send torca a Private Message
nisi me svatija. ja i mislin upravo na nevinsove, a sa "dosta ljudi" san tija rec da se radi o kolaboraciji, da mu je dosta ljudi pomoglo s informacijama.
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik



Serbia
11876 Posts

Member since 03/11/2002

Posted - 19/04/2004 : 23:23:13  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
A, to da.

Nice and smooth.
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realist
Senior Member



Croatia
1206 Posts

Member since 09/09/2003

Posted - 20/04/2004 : 12:22:25  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send realist a Private Message
Kad samostalno procitas strip i skuzis neku aluziju,onda se potapsas po ledima,i to je OK.Povrsno procitas annotations,pa strip i kazes:Uh,vidis to mi nije palo na pamet.Ali,ja sam isto mislio na ovaj ann. koji je naveo torca i malcice je predetaljan.Stvarno,kome to treba...dilema rijesena.
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zveles
Advanced Member



Croatia
3994 Posts

Member since 28/03/2003

Posted - 20/04/2004 : 14:02:44  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send zveles a Private Message
mogao bih dodati pitanje: zasto je umjetnost (slikovna, pisana, instalirana...) umjetnost? zato sto nam u nekom svom segmentu djeluje nejasno i tjera na razmisljanje i sagledavanje. kada taj djelic "desifriramo", tada se osjecamo zadovoljno i puno blizi umjetnicom djelu koje nas je fasciniralo. kada bi ga, pak, mogli do kraja ogoliti i percipirati sve njegove konotacije (kojih niti sam autor nije svjestan, nego su velikim djelom plod njegove podsvjesti i podsvjesni odraz njegovog prozivljenog iskustva), onda to umjetnicko djelo za nas vise ne bi bilo fascinantno ili opcaravajuce vec bi postalo suhoparno i programatsko.

zveles
- platon i sokrat ga nisu razumjeli.

THERE, THERE
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culture vulture
Senior Member

1595 Posts

Member since 21/02/2004

Posted - 20/04/2004 : 20:21:46  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send culture vulture a Private Message
pitanje je stvarno zanimljivo, ali odgovor je zapravo veoma jednostavan - sva je razlika u tome traži li neki autor da se sve te reference razumiju, ili ne.. odnosno: ocekuje li on od nas išcitavanje znacenja iz tih skrivenih, ikonografskih/ citatnih/ simbolicnih/??? kvaka, ili su one tu tek usput..
dakle, nije stvar u našem stavu, nego u stavu samog autora..

na primjer, batman se obicno smješta u goticko okruženje i to svakako ima svoje simbolicko znacenje, ili se netko može odluciti nacrtati negdje korintske stupove (koji odgovaraju ženskom spolu, uzvišenom ambijentu, najvecem redu svetosti i sl..)umjesto dorskih (koji odgovaraju muškom, robusnijem, spolu, zatvorima, vojnim zgradama ili sudovima..) pa se i tu može tražiti neka poruka, ali
se takav strip cita bez nekog posebnog gubitka ako se takve stvari i ne znaju..
medutim, watchmene, a pogotovo loeg gotovo da i nema smisla citati bez mogucnosti da se, bilo kroz vlastito obrazovanje (koje bi u slucaju loeg trebalo biti stvarno opširno i sumnjam da ga velik broj ljudi ima), bilo kroz neke annotated editions, dokuce te 'skrivene' poruke..

paralela u književnosti bio bi svakako npr. joyceov 'uliks', koji se može citati i bez vodica, ali se tako propušta sva bit.. jer taj i takav roman vec svojim naslovom izražava autorov zahtjev da ga se tako cita..

dakle, ponavljam, stvar je u stavu samog autora..

plus, treba možda reci i to, iako se zapravo donekle samo po sebi razumije, da ne može baš sve biti u tom šifriranom jeziku.. jer bi onda bilo jednostavno previše dosadno i nitko se ne bi trudio oko toga..
znaci, dobar strip takve vrste mora se moc citat (i bit uzbudljiv) na svim ponudenim razinama..

'Lobo!Lobo!Bring back Sheriff Lobo!' (Homer Simpson)
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vang0gh24
New Member



Canada
205 Posts

Member since 17/01/2004

Posted - 21/04/2004 : 00:00:30  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send vang0gh24 a Private Message
ehh znam da bi to bilo zanimljivo ali toliko toga novoga, dobroga ima za procitati, da se vreme jednostavno sad nemoze gubiti na ponovno citanje.

devojke su lude za mnom, prosle noci jedna je satima kucala na moja vrata ali je nisam pustio da....izadje
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realist
Senior Member



Croatia
1206 Posts

Member since 09/09/2003

Posted - 21/04/2004 : 09:16:55  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send realist a Private Message
Ma koga boli k***c...
Salim se,mislim da je OK tu i tamo nesto pogledati u vodic,ali od panela do panela,ipak ne.Stvarno,ima toliko toga za procitati da je gotovo nemoguce naci vremena za takvu egzibiciju.Hvala na vasim razmisljanjima...

Edited by - realist on 21/04/2004 09:19:03
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Toto
Starting Member

Vatican City
83 Posts

Member since 12/01/2004

Posted - 22/04/2004 : 13:44:55  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Toto a Private Message
WATCHMEN je mozda najbolji strip svih vremena pa vrjedi znati sve o njemu.
Hvala Realisti sto me je upozorio na taj sajt. Ja sam uzivao.

Toto
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik



Croatia
21661 Posts

Member since 24/09/2002

Posted - 27/04/2005 : 21:42:23  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send DeeCay a Private Message
Ej ljudi, gdje ste našli za skidati taj Watchmen Guide? Samo mi nemojte rec na "dc plus plus"... Stvarno svaka vinjeta vrvi nekim skrivenim znacenjima, nekim citiranjima, a sve uokolo su papirici i ostaci starih novina koje daju najnovije vijesti o aktualnim dogadajima. Bilo bi stvarno interesantno procitati uz guide! Ili možda after guide?

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled
Was convincing the world he didn't exist,
That was his power...
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik



Croatia
21661 Posts

Member since 24/09/2002

Posted - 27/04/2005 : 21:43:26  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send DeeCay a Private Message
No dobro, našao sam tocno taj annotation koji je navedeni u topicu:
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/watchmen-index.html

Jel to preporucljivo citati ako nisi procitao strip? Mislim, glede nekih ultra-mega-spoilercina??!!

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled
Was convincing the world he didn't exist,
That was his power...

Edited by - DeeCay on 27/04/2005 23:17:19
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Emir Pasanovic
stripovi.com suradnik

Bosnia and Herzegovina
6221 Posts

Member since 10/06/2002

Posted - 28/04/2005 : 00:21:43  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit Emir Pasanovic's Homepage  Send Emir Pasanovic a Private Message
priznacu da nikad nisam volio annotations i prisao sam svakom od navedenih stripova sa spekta novog citaoca, kao da je nesto 'orginalno', ali...
Djole, LoEG v.2, ima jedan 'crni grad' ili nesto slicno (da ne trazim sada :)) cija je i slika u TPBu objavljena. na sta tu aludira?? iz prvog citanja cini mi se da nisi stavio u one gore annotations...
a razlog sto me to interesuje? izbacite crnilo i sjene iz te slike u TPBu, i dobijete klasicni Stari most u Mostaru sa malo nakrivljenim zgradama uokolo :)
hvala unaprijed

http://round2create.blogspot.com/
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Barker
Advanced Member



Fyro Macedonia
4650 Posts

Member since 10/10/2003

Posted - 02/09/2005 : 13:07:20  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Barker a Private Message
Ja procitah Watchmen-e pre neki dan i jos sam pod impresijom. Moram da napomenem da mi je ovo prvi superherojski strip koji sam procitao u zivotu ( posto ne racunam po 2-3 epizode Super/Bat/Spider...man iz Eksova i Almanaha). U stvari moram da priznam da mi je ovo i prvi susret sa Moor-om, tako da me sada vec shvatate. Mislim na moje odusevljenje stripom. Koje bi svakako bilo isto, a mozda i jace da sam iscitao sve ostale superheroje.
Ovo moze da ide u skolsku lektiru. Fenomenalno.
A sada malo listam Wikipediu o njima, pa cu onda potraziti i anotacije,pa preprocitati, pa onda....

Bistro i duboko nebo utociste pruza!
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degman
Advanced Member

Germany
5797 Posts

Member since 23/03/2003

Posted - 02/09/2005 : 13:15:29  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send degman a Private Message
...pa onda, prestat kupovat talijane i prec na amere
been there, seen that :)))
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Barker
Advanced Member



Fyro Macedonia
4650 Posts

Member since 10/10/2003

Posted - 02/09/2005 : 13:18:07  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Barker a Private Message
He-he, mudri degi ;)

Bistro i duboko nebo utociste pruza!
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wanderer
Advanced Member



United Arab Emirates
3489 Posts

Member since 18/08/2004

Posted - 02/09/2005 : 14:29:43  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send wanderer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by DeeCay

No dobro, našao sam tocno taj annotation koji je navedeni u topicu:
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/watchmen-index.html



http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/sandman-index.html

za sendmene anotacije!
zakon stvar!!


_________________________
Fire walks with ME!!
_________________________
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CortoMaltese
Average Member



Croatia
792 Posts

Member since 16/03/2003

Posted - 02/09/2005 : 15:52:02  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit CortoMaltese's Homepage  Send CortoMaltese a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by degman

...pa onda, prestat kupovat talijane i prec na amere
been there, seen that :)))



same here...

Heroji...Ne trebaju vam puške ni pištolji.
Samo cisto srce, i niceg se ne boj!
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