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kiky
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 17:07:38  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit kiky's Homepage  Send kiky a Private Message
Danas sam opet procitao, nadasve interesantni, intervju sa Stefanom Viettijem, pa evo pitanje za one koji su s njim pobliže upoznati i koji su vec imali tu cast citati neke NN-ove koje je on napisao; i jel' dobar on scenarist, dali dobro radi svoj posao, jeste li zadovoljni s promjenama koje je uveo u serijal? Ta njegova furka na realisticnost serijala, i bježanje od "hard SF-a" (a ja opet nekako volim taj hard SF u Nathana)... ukratko, jel' vam se svidja taj "put" kojim je Vietti odlucio voditi Nathana?

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Djole
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Serbia
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 17:36:05  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Uh.

Prvo, Vietti još uvek nije dobar scenarista. Pravi previše faktografskih grešaka u svojim scenarijima. To u Nathanu nije toliko strašno, ali u onih par epizoda koje je uradio za Martija veoma dolazi do izražaja. Ima slodinepostavke, ne vodi uvek najbolje pricu, a pay off je hit or miss - ili odlican, ili ocajan. Case in point - ratna saga: odlicna postavka, u nacelu dobro finale, ali ocajno vodenje price. Malo bolji su Venerabili, ali tu je pak postavka trošnija, a razrada sa onim silnim vremenskim tokovima je - debilna.

Ono što mi je bilo cudno u intervjuu je što je rekao da ne voli Spejs operu, a njegovi NN Giganti su spejs opera u svojoj najcistijoj formi. A opet, ti Giganti imaju jednu grešku u kontinuitetu kroz koju može da prode cela zgrada Alfe.

To po strani, Vietti je uzdigao Serrinu logiku ozapetljanom kontinuitetu na nivo umetnosti. Opet Venerabili - saznajemo da postoje, onda par brojeva kasnije vidimo njihovo uništenje, a dvadeset brojeva kasnije, u prici koja ukljucuje Mister Alfu, profesora Odaku, stubove Atlantide, ono japansko tajno društvo i dolinu dinosaurusa, saznali kako su Venerabili nastali. A dvesta godina kasnije, oni se pojavljuju i u NN Gigantima, mada dolaze iz paralelne dimenzije. Takode, i ono sestrinstvotelepata se, ako se ne varam, pojavilo prvo u Gigantima, odnosno buducnosti, pa tek onda u Nathanu.

Ali,Vietti ima nekoliko svojih omiljenih tema koje gura i u NN. Prva je rasizam, i on je intenzivno razraduje preko Branka i mutanata vec godinama. Druga, donekle izražena i u Hammeru, je virtuelnost života. Ceo NN serijal, sve do rata prakticno, je samo igra Mister Alfe, strip u stripu, gde je Alfa povlacio konce naših dragih junaka, a vala i negativaca. Jeste, to je malo nakalemljeno na originalni Nathanov koncept, ali donekle funkcioniše.

Donekle.

To je problem Rata - prekompleksan je, Vietti nije uspeo da zadrži sve konce u rukama, i cela prica je otišla dotle da se više ne zna ko za koga radi, i zašto. Ništa cudno, jedini slicni pokušaji u Bonelliju su MM-ov Countdown, gde je i Castelli pao, i Sclaviejvi Divovi dobra i zla. Ali Vietti nije Sclavi.

Ukratko, od stripa koji mrzi tehnologiju, zagovara predestinaciju, i donekle se bavi ljudskom otudenošcu u savremenom svetu, pod Viettijevom palicom, NN je postao strip o morbidnosti uopšte, rasizmu, i kontroli, odnosno predestinaciji na jedan drugi nacin, gde nevidljive sile uticu na život ljudi. Jel to valja?

Tja.

U krajnjoj liniji, možemo mi da pricamo šta hocemo, al' Vietti ce progurati Nathana kroz drugih sto brojeva, vec je stigao do 70, što se ne bi desilo da je za dirigentskom palicom ostao Serra, koji je ostao bez ideja vec oko broja 50.

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"The sphinx. That has tits, right?"
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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 17:46:07  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Znaci, Serra je out isto kao Sclavi kod Dilana?

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Djole
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Serbia
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 17:50:39  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Ne baš, trebalo bi da radi novi gigant, odradio je nekoliko epizoda u poslednjih par godina.

Ali nisu ništa posebno.

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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 17:53:49  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Pa i Sklavi se pojavio par puta u ovim poslednjim Ludensima... Sta, skroz ga nema kasnije?

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kiky
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:01:42  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit kiky's Homepage  Send kiky a Private Message
Djole, ajde mi objasni pojam "space opere".

and I smelt her burning flesh... her rotting bones... her decay
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Djole
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Serbia
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:03:04  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka

Pa i Sklavi se pojavio par puta u ovim poslednjim Ludensima... Sta, skroz ga nema kasnije?

CRVENO-BELI, CRVENO-BELI!!!


Skroz. Poslednji cemu biti Il "Progetto". Broj 176 (odnosno dupla sedmica, 1 plus 6 jednako 7). Mart 2001., kada je po Poslednjem coveku na Zemlji došlo do smaka sveta.

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"The sphinx. That has tits, right?"

Edited by - Djole on 07/01/2005 18:05:04
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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:04:18  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Zar nisi nikad gledao Star Trek, Star Wars, Andromedu...

'Space opera is subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes romantic adventure, interstellar travel, and space battles where the main storyline is interstellar conflict and character drama.'



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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:06:22  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Djole

Skroz. Poslednji cemu biti Il "Progetto". Broj 176 (odnosno dupla sedmica, 1 plus 6 jednako 7). Mart 2001., kada je po Poslednjem coveku na Zemlji došlo do smaka sveta.

--
"The sphinx. That has tits, right?"

Vrlo zanimljivo. Znaci, uskoro, kroz par godina, citacemo i tu epizodu. Jel bar u rangu sa Poslednjim covekom na Zemlji?

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:06:46  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Ukratko, gde nije toliko bitno kako su ljudi došli u svemir, vec šta im se u svemiru dešava...

ubr, jabaš ne bih svrstavao Star Trek u Spejs opere...

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Djole
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Serbia
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:09:04  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka

Vrlo zanimljivo. Znaci, uskoro, kroz par godina, citacemo i tu epizodu. Jel bar u rangu sa Poslednjim covekom na Zemlji?

CRVENO-BELI, CRVENO-BELI!!!



Na žalost, nije.

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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:09:24  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Hard science fiction, or hard SF, is a subgenre of science fiction characterized by an interest in scientific detail or accuracy. (Though there is a great deal of disagreement among readers and writers over exactly what constitutes hard SF.) Many hard SF stories focus on the natural sciences and technological developments, although many others leave the technology in the background. Some authors scrupulously eschew such implausibilities as faster-than-light travel, while others accept such plot devices but nonetheless show a concern with a realistic depiction of the worlds that such a technology might make accessible. It is said that the hard SF writer is permitted to foresee the automobile provided that he also foresees the traffic jam.

Character development is sometimes secondary to explorations of astronomical or physical phenomena, but other times authors make the human condition forefront in the story. However a common theme of hard SF has the resolution of the plot often hinging upon a technological point. Writers attempt to have their stories consistent with known science at the time of publication. Interestingly, some hard science fiction stories are set in an alternate universe where different physical laws apply; however, in such cases the author makes use of current physics to design a universe that is at least potentially realistic.

Hard science fiction is largely a literary genre, as the complexities of physics rarely translate well to the screen. One of the notable exceptions is 2001: A Space Odyssey; however, the movie still leaves out much of the examination of the physics, computer science, and other scientific analyses present in the novel version.

;)

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kiky
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:09:41  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit kiky's Homepage  Send kiky a Private Message
A šta bi po vama onda bio "hard SF"?
Jel' bi to bilo nešto poput epizode "Bratstvo sjene/Egzodus"?

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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:13:34  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Djole

quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka

Vrlo zanimljivo. Znaci, uskoro, kroz par godina, citacemo i tu epizodu. Jel bar u rangu sa Poslednjim covekom na Zemlji?

CRVENO-BELI, CRVENO-BELI!!!
AAAARGGHHHH Platices mi za ovo

Na žalost, nije.

--
"The sphinx. That has tits, right?"

So, je li njegov odlazak dobro ili zlo po DDa? Sudeci po nekim scenaristima cija imena necu pominjati, ne valja...

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:17:40  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Senka ti je odgovorio, ali ja bih samo dodao da Bratstvo sjene, sa putovanjem kroz vreme,i Gabrielovim mocima ne može da bude hard SF, pa ne znam šta da je.

Najbliže tome bi bile epizode sa robotima.

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:21:14  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Damn, stalno mi se neko ubacuje izmedu, pa treba da editujem postove i quoteujem...

Enivej, senko, ne možeš tako da gledaš na stvari povodom Sclavija. On se istrošio. Niko drugi ne može ni da mu pride, ali on se istrošio. Da li je bolji istrošeni Sclavi od Barbatove u punoj snazi? Nije. Cak ni uz sve razlike u pristupu, nije.

ALi to više nije onaj isti Dylan...

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prozirna senka
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:24:05  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Ti editujes i quotove, barabo nijedna;)

Hm, da, Dilan vise nije onaj stari. Sta mislis, kakva mu je sudbina, ima li smisla nastavljati u nedogled. Ocigkledno da donosi profit Boneliju jos uvek, ali kvaliteta nigde... Sta se suska preko bare?

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:29:33  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Pa mora neko da te izvede na pravi put, vi kolonisti u divljini odvanonistegledali fudbal, pa živite u zabludi... ;)

A za Dylana, pojma nemam, logicno je da ce ga nastavljati do beskraja.

Ali mislim da nema smisla. Sve što ima da se kaže, vec je receno. Ono što nije, može da se kaže i u nekom drugom serijalu, ne mora u Dylanu.

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prozirna senka
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USA
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:31:43  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Ja volim da gledam u Zenit:) Profesionalna deformacija, valjda...

Kako receno, a sta je sa onim periodom od kako je bio klinac pa dok nije podtao pajkan?

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kiky
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:32:34  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Visit kiky's Homepage  Send kiky a Private Message
A ja pišem i brišem postove, pa tako je senka meni odgovorio na pitanje o hard SF-u koje sam ja izbrisao, editirao, i ponovno napisao.
Da, vidim da se ljudi ne mogu zapravo složiti do kraja oko toga što bi bio hard SF... postoje razlicita stajališta.
Ej, nije ovo topic o Dylanu! :))

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prozirna senka
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USA
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:34:46  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
dobricina jednom kaza da ja idem ispred vremena;) Tako sam i odgovorio na pitanje pre no sto si ga i postavio:)

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:37:44  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Ljudi se ne mogu složiti niokocega.

Senko, imaš još jednu pricu o Dylanovom detinjstvu, Ho ucciso Jack lo squaratore u DD Maxi #2. Tu se samo cementira ono što vec znamo iz prethodnih epizoda, tako da Sclavi šta je imao da kaže - rekao je.

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prozirna senka
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USA
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:39:22  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Jos i maxi da citamo... Dobro, doci ce i on na red da ga kupim u okviru Super booka... Hvala na infou.

A jel' moze jedan spoiler?

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Djole
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:43:46  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Djole a Private Message
Za šta, Ho ucciso Jack lo squaratore?

Odavno se kanim da napišem recenziju, ali to se verovatno nece desiti, tako da može, što da ne...

Mada i nije neki spoiler. Vidimo Dylana kako ima secanja i na normalno detinjstvo,u normalnoj decijoj sobi, ali i na nenormalno, s kraja pretprošlog veka,bukvalno dickensovsko... E sad, šta toznaci, druga je prica, i više za DD Unified theory, nego za ovaj topic.

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prozirna senka
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USA
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 18:48:48  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send prozirna senka a Private Message
Ok, onda idemo u DD Unified Theory, ok?

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DeeCay
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Posted - 07/01/2005 : 19:35:11  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send DeeCay a Private Message
Kako možeš Nathana staviti u hard SF? Bar ovih 50-tak epizoda koje su izašle nikako ne. Više mi to lici na neki fantasy u svemiru, teža space opera, uglavnom komercijala, nikako ne hard SF...

A kad Vietta dode za desetak brojeva u nas, bolje cemo moci procijeniti (naravno, ako vidimo i Serrine gigante) moc naracije doticnog scenarista

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled
Was convincing the world he didn't exist,
That was his power...
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