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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
Posted - 17/04/2011 : 12:52:39
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nedavno sam bio zamoljen da preporucim neke ilustratore za magazin. rekli su mi sto bi oni i kakve im ilustracije trebaju... e, a onda sam ja poceo surfati po svim mogucim i nemogucim blogovima nasih vrlih ilustratora i stripasha... nakon sat vremena znao sam kakav filmski (ne)ukus imaju, sto slushaju od muzike... ali, da me ubijes, nisam uspio pronaci niti jedan suvisli portfolio... I tu se dogadja shizofrenija: ja znam kako tko crta, ali nemam cime to pokazati. onda mi moraju vjerovati na rijec. a to je, kako znamo, neozbiljno.
Netko bi se bavio ilustracijom?! Prvo mi pokazi portfolio, a onda cemo dalje razgovarati. |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
Posted - 17/04/2011 : 20:29:35
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Rico, prijatelju, ne tražim ja tebi posao. Ja tražim ilustratore najčešće, na zahtjev prijatelja-urednika. Navodno se takvi ljudi u inozemstvu zovu agenti i uzimaju postotak. Nisam agent i ne uzimam postotak, ali zdušno obavljam lov na ilustratora. I ne samo to, čak poslije zovem i provjeravam kako je dotični obavio posao. I ne samo to, već i pripomenem uredniku da bi mogao platiti, onako, uz kavu. Ja tu vidim neku vrst vlastite afirmacije...
Svojevremeno je ulupuh izdao nekakvu knjigu ilustracija, prije par godine... ništa posebno. preko te knjige dobivani su nevjerovatni poslovi, a i dan danas se u agencijama služe njom, kad traže autora. Velim, knjiga je ništa specijalno, ali je JEDINA. |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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zlikovski
Senior Member
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Croatia
1090 Posts
Member since 21/03/2008 |
Posted - 18/04/2011 : 16:10:22
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postani ti agent ili nagovori nekog svog da postane. mi bi svi da nam bude superiška i puno bolje nego sad, ali nikako da se sami sjetimo pokrenuti stvar. |
Grad - to ste vi. |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
Posted - 18/04/2011 : 19:36:45
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evo, recimo, naprimjer, hipotetski, otvorim ja agenciju. što me to štiti da moj ilustrator ne dogovori poslove iza mojih ledja?! |
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andjusticeforall
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3077 Posts
Member since 09/12/2009 |
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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
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andjusticeforall
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3077 Posts
Member since 09/12/2009 |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
Posted - 18/04/2011 : 22:24:55
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Nasi prostori nisu francusko trziste ;))) salim se. postoji sijaset primjera, no mene ne brine ni pravna strana. suradjujem sa ilustratorima i stripašima i nitko od njih ne zna da novina u kojoj objavljuju, recimo, kasni s lovom 2 mjeseca. Na što sam ponosan. Jer ja to smatram poštenim poslom.
Mene brine - ceh. Znas, cjenik. Ono sto mi nemamo, al zato imaju one babe na pijaci koje se dogovore o cijeni. Jer su pametne. |
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Rico
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3955 Posts
Member since 12/10/2004 |
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bisley
Senior Member
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Croatia
1194 Posts
Member since 08/06/2005 |
Posted - 19/04/2011 : 10:33:47
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Mene brine - ceh. Znas, cjenik. Ono sto mi nemamo, al zato imaju one babe na pijaci koje se dogovore o cijeni. Jer su pametne. [/quote] Koliko ja znam postoji cjenik autorskih naknada za ilustraciju. Ja sam ga dobio od Macana prije nekih 5 godina na CRŠ i kopirao sam ga u 50-ak primjeraka i dijelio ljudima koji su me pitali kako se određuje cijena crteža ili ilustrcije... |
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mcn
Advanced Member
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Croatia
6666 Posts
Member since 28/12/2002 |
Posted - 19/04/2011 : 11:10:04
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>Koliko ja znam postoji cjenik autorskih naknada za ilustraciju. Ja sam ga dobio od Macana prije nekih 5 godina na CRŠ i kopirao sam ga u 50-ak primjeraka i dijelio ljudima koji su me pitali kako se određuje cijena crteža ili ilustrcije...
Da, ali to je vic jer po ondje navedenim cijenama mozzess nessto prodati samo drzzavnim institucijama, eventualno marketinsskim agencijama. Hochu rechi, super ako su te ljudi plachali po tom cjeniku, ali daleko je od pravila.
@Vlado - Da, dva su problema: a) da autor uzme agenta da mu nadje posao i poslije ga oche iskljucciti te b) da uvijek ima netko tko che raditi i za sitnije pare.
Rjessenje je dugoroccno: uspostavljanje povjerenja u trokutu - klijent-agent-crtacc, u kojem nije cilj zajebati drugu dvojicu nego zajedniccki prosperitet sa ssto manje problema. E sad, Balkane moj i sve to pa ne garantiram, ali tako to nekako ide.
Mislim, naravno da che neki dobar crtacc (Zonjich, Dzzuka) uvijek imati posla - njima je, u teoriji, u interesu agent da se ne moraju cimati odlazechi na kave s klijentima i lomiti oko naplate. To vrijedi 10%. Klijentu, u teoriji, nije cilj nachi ssto jeftinije nego pouzdano kvalitetno i joss pouzdanije na vrijeme. Agnetu, u teoriji, nije u interesu nakacciti se samo nekome tko vech ima posla i uzeti deset posto od poslova koje ovaj vech ima vech pokazati da umije nachi profitabilne i nove klijente te zzivjeti od poslova koje je nassao.
Spomenuti Csaba radi s tridesetoricom crtacca, ssto znacci da zaradjuje kao trojica, ali i radi. Takodjer, da ne bi ljudi sad mislili da je ccudotvorac, on uglavnom upossljava realisticcne crtacce na projektima za koje mu izdavacci trazze radnu snagu. Artists need not apply.
(mcn) |
Zar danas još niste bili na www.darkomacan.com ? *** Moje aukcije: http://www.stripovi.com/index.asp?page=auction-search&Action=1&Seller=mcn |
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bisley
Senior Member
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Croatia
1194 Posts
Member since 08/06/2005 |
Posted - 19/04/2011 : 14:18:39
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[quote]Originally posted by mcn
Da, ali to je vic jer po ondje navedenim cijenama mozzess nessto prodati samo drzzavnim institucijama, eventualno marketinsskim agencijama. Hochu rechi, super ako su te ljudi plachali po tom cjeniku, ali daleko je od pravila.
U većini slučajeva cjenik mi je služio kao argument cijene crteža ili ilustracije sa pregovaračima i nikad nisam išao ispod 70% cijene osim kod rekonstrukcija, jer su tamo malo dignute cijene za takve stvari. Ali uglavnom je funkcioniralo i još funkcionira. I shvatio sam, što manje para tražiš, manje te ljudi traže, pod uvjetom da je kvaliteta na nivou. Uglavnom, hvala na cjeniku!!! |
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bisley
Senior Member
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Croatia
1194 Posts
Member since 08/06/2005 |
Posted - 20/04/2011 : 11:32:59
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Vjerojatno su svi koji su radili ilustracije ili vinjete ili crteže ili bilo što za firme, privatnike, institucije, gradove...imali nekakva iskustva pozitivna ili negativna... Jednom su me pozvali na sastanak, 6 psihologa iz raznih strana države i u planu imaju izdati ...o odgoju djece, ali nemaju uopće koncept kako bi to trebalo izgledati. Dakle, njima treba vizualizacija da bi uopće mogli zamisliti kako će to izgledati i to korak po korak. Oni iznose ideje, a ja crtam. I tako čitavi sastanak, nekih 3 i po sata. Nacrtao sam nekih 20 -30 crteža i onda im rekao da to uopće nema smisla jer su se stalno vrtili u krug. I još su mi rekli da na osnovu njihovih tekstova i mojih crteža tek trebaju tražiti novac kojim bi mi platili angažman, odnosno uopće pokrenuli projekt... Ne moram ni reći da ništa od posla nije bilo.
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cat claw
Advanced Member
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5843 Posts
Member since 06/10/2007 |
Posted - 20/04/2011 : 12:25:08
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Najbolji su oni sto traze tri-cetiri-pet verzija pa ce izabrati, a hoce da plate kao jednu ilustraciju.  
A najvise od svega mrzim sto pricu o lovi nikad ne spominju, nego moras da se osecas neprijatno kada to na kraju napomenes. Jos gore, O, za to nema problema pa se ispostavi da itekako ima. Pocevsi od toga da te u startu smatra budalom ciji rad kosta manje od vodoinstalaterovog, do toga da bas na tebi treba da ustedi cenu cele produkcije jer sa stamparom ne moze da se cenka.
Vladimir pravi uobicajenu gresku i ''trazi ilustratora''. Ispravno bi bilo ''trazim ilustratora za bajke moderniji pristup'' ili ''ilustrator za basne, klasicna ilustracija'' pa da mu se jave oni koji su za to a ne da cima sve koji su u okolini. |
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vladimir
New Member
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Croatia
194 Posts
Member since 21/01/2005 |
Posted - 20/04/2011 : 14:22:21
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Hvala svim profesionalcima na zapazanjima, dragocjena su. Sto se tice trazenja ilustracija, osnovni je problem nekompetentnost i neukost urednika, koji, u principu, znaju da bi neki tekst mogao imati ilustraciju. onda me zovu, pa im za kavom prvo objasnim im tekst ne samo može, nego mora imati ilustraciju. onda razgovaramo o velicini, karakteru, rokovima i cijeni ilustracija... onda trazimo ilustratora koji to moze napraviti. Gospodin Claw vjerojatno misli da ilustratore trazim u pisanom obliku. Stoga se slazem da je u tom slucaju bolje traziti s definiranim stilom. No, kako zivimo u malo vecem selu, sta ce mi pisani oglasi? ;)
Inace, ova situacija s ilustracijama i urednicima me podsjeca na pricu mog djeda koji je doselivsi se iz Ukrajine u Bosnu pocetkom proslog stoljeca uzasnuto ustvrdio da domoroci uopce ne znaju za - pekmez ili suhe sljive! Vec od sljiva prave samo rakiju. Pa su im pokazali kako se pravi pekmez i kako se suše šljive. Domoroci su bili rezervirani naspram tih mondenih recepata, no nakon sto se ustvrdilo da je rakija od sušenih šljiva, takodjer, odlicna, stvar se polako pomakla! Dobro, jebo analogiju, al prica je vrhunska.
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cat claw
Advanced Member
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5843 Posts
Member since 06/10/2007 |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
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