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Inferno
stripovi.com suradnik
Croatia
3752 Posts
Member since 19/01/2007 |
 Posted - 13/08/2008 : 11:44:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ridiculus
quote:
Originally posted by ordell
ranma 1/2;
Šta mislite o tom serijalu? Čita li itko to?? Razmišljam da u sledecoj turi amazona nabavim barem 1. i 2. vol. pa da probamo 
Dok bih ja uvek pre čitao Maison Ikkoku, kao što reče i corto, ipak je to "ozbiljnije" delo, ne mora da znači da bi i ti tako mislio. Zato (i po meni samo zato) je dobro što postoje skenlacije, pa pogledaj sam. Postoji nekoliko sajtova gde možeš da čitaš mange online, bez daunlouda:
http://mangahut.com/
http://www.onemanga.com/
http://www.mangafox.com/
Izgleda da sam previdio ove linkove.
Odlična stvar.
Lipo vas je čitati!
Samo vi nastavite s preporukama...
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Mefisto je lik koji Texa spasava od kritika na pretjeranom realizmu.
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corto33
Senior Member
Slovenia
2520 Posts
Member since 18/11/2003 |
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ordell
Senior Member
Slovenia
1898 Posts
Member since 20/08/2006 |
Posted - 13/08/2008 : 18:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by corto33
quote:
Originally posted by ordell
The Push man and other stories/ abandon the old in tokyo
Nabavio sam i ja ove dvije knjige, meni su OK, nabaviču i treču, kad izadje.
Inače, tko su "push mani" možete vidjeti iz ovog kratkog filma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBv534qB9H0
...ima taj poklic izgleda več tradiciju na Japanskom 
3. knjiga - "good bye" je vani više od mjesec dana, mada ne vjerujem da su je vec dobili u konzorciju
U vezi push mena, do ovog stripa nisam ni sam znao da je to stalnica u japanu već 40 godina, a možda i više |
Edited by - ordell on 13/08/2008 18:22:05 |
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 13/08/2008 : 23:49:26
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Isečci iz intervjua sa Jasonom Thompsonom, objavljeni na jednom grčkom(?) sajtu, http://www.comicdom.gr/interviews.php?id=24&lang=en. Ovo ime možda neće značiti puno ljudima ovde, ali recimo da je on među pet najvećih poznavalaca mangi u Americi.
Manga is at the moment one of the "big things" in the western comics market. Why do you think this happens?
I’d say there’s a couple of reasons. First, young people in the West have become gradually accustomed to manga styles through anime and Japanese video games, so there wasn’t as much of a stylistic obstacle as was 20 or even 10 years ago. Second, the American comic market had collapsed so badly by the late ‘90s that manga seemed to represent a really attractive, healthy and vibrant alternative. Third, in more general terms, mainstream manga has captured a niche which once belonged to young adult paperback novels. The more popular manga becomes, the more shelf space it gets in bookstores, and the more popular become aware of it... and so, for awhile at least, it becomes a feedback loop of increasing popularity.
How do you feel about the prevalent opinion that the core of manga culture consists of schoolgirls, huge eyes, tentacles, magic powers, robots and speed lines?
Sadly, there are a lot of people who have a superficial knowledge of manga, just like there’s a lot of people who think American comics are all about superheroes. I remember playing DUNGEONS & DRAGONS with people who, when they found out I worked in the manga business, would tease me about it and call me a nerd.
What’s your reply to the opinion that manga comics are childish, and lack seriousness or depth?
I think this is a criticism made by people who come from an American or European art-comics perspective. Of course the most popular manga are formulaic genre stories, but so are the most popular movies, TV shows, and bestselling books. This is why manga is an economically successful medium; most manga tells crowd-pleasing stories. But the “high end” of manga -- the works of Kazuichi Hanawa, Kan Takahama, Jiro Taniguchi, Usamaru Furuya, a lot of classic works by creators like Osamu Tezuka -- is just as serious and artistic as the high end of American and European comics. In any case (although this may seem like undercutting my own argument) I don’t believe in any absolute wall between high and low culture... I enjoy a manga like Kazuo Umezu’s “THE DRIFTING CLASSROOM,” for instance, which on the one hand has a sort of philosophy and is incredibly well-crafted, and on the other hand is kind of confused at times, and is written for 12-year-olds.
Many people consider a large part of the manga output as being "really violent and/or sick”. What's your opinion on this? Would you say that it has something to do with the psychology of Japanese people?
I don’t think manga is really “sicker” than American culture; mainstream manga is a big business and the major publishers are really very conservative and afraid of offending people, even if their standards are in some ways looser than Western standards, or seem looser because their particular taboos are different (like the Buddhist manji symbols which in the West are always mistaken for Nazi swastikas). Only someone who is completely paranoid about violence in the media could be offended by DEATH NOTE. Only someone who is totally prejudiced against the idea that adults can watch cartoons could see UROTSUKIDOJI: LEGEND OF THE OVERFIELD and make the blanket assumption that all anime is “sick,” when benign, bland kids’ shows like SAILOR MOON, DRAGON BALL Z, POKEMON and HAMTARO are thousands of times more popular. Certainly there are enough disturbing memes and images floating around the Internet nowadays, that it is hypocritical to point to any other country and say “they’re sick!” Perhaps the world is approaching a certain common level of sickness.
Personally, I find manga to be highly imaginative. Is there a connection with modern Japanese everyday life and if so, in what way?
Certainly for every manga like NARUTO that’s set in an imaginary world, there’s a manga—maybe two or three manga—that’s set in a realistic, modern Japanese setting. The majority of manga, even if they’re not always “realistic” stories, are set in the real world, so definitely they reflect modern Japanese everyday life. HIKARU NO GO will teach you a hell of a lot about Japanese schools and Japanese go culture. Even a manga which just happens to be set in a school, like RANMA #189;, can teach you a lot. Gilles Poitras’ ANIME COMPANION books are basically dedicated to listing and explaining all the subtle details of Japanese life which are present in anime. And although fantasy and science fiction manga may make up the majority of translated works, there’s plenty of non-fantastical manga published in Japan, such as HAPPY MANIA, HONEY AND CLOVER, GOLGO 13,, the KOSAKU SHIMA, MAISON IKKOKU books, Hideo Azuma’s DISAPPEARANCE DIARY, and countless other manga for adult men and women.
I think that fantastical, imaginative manga is translated in disproportionate numbers, because it’s more similar to what Americans expect out of comics. And also, because in some ways, these fantastical, “nerdy” things are easier for foreigners to get into. You don’t have to know as much about Japanese culture to read about monsters and ninja and giant robots, as you do to read about salarymen or Japanese food or the Japanese political system. |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
Edited by - ridiculus on 13/08/2008 23:50:00 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 01:01:44
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quote:
Originally posted by ridiculus
Manga is at the moment one of the "big things" in the western comics market.
Hmmm... u vezi sa tim:
quote:
As part of its recent restructuring, Tokyopop cut back its publication schedule from about 500 volumes per year to between 200 and 225. As a result, Tokyopop postponed some scheduled releases so the rights could be renegotiated. Tokyopop notified retailers in June that 28 titles solicited in the July previews would be canceled, and many bloggers posted that list. In addition, PWCW’s Heidi MacDonald reported in her comics industry blog, The Beat, that 11 more that were slated for January had been pulled.
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 01:27:19
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Tokyopop ima problema, da ... i nije mi mnogo žao. Tačno je da su oni prvi počeli da izdaju mange u originalnoj orijentaciji, ali to je bilo slučajno. Zahtev autora i izdavača koji su oni preko volje ispunili. A i bilo je jeftinije. Međutim, Stuart Levy je veliki maher i umeo je to da preokrene u svoju korist. I njihovo insistiranje da kreacije ostaju u njihovom vlasništvu je počelo da im se odbija o glavu, jer mnogi više neće da rade s njima. OEL mange? Pa Tokyopop je zavisio od Kodanshe, i kada im je ova okrenula leđa, naravno da su izmisliti rešenje! Kao što ja uvek volim da kažem, necessity is the mother of invention.
Ali nemoj misliti da to kači sve izdavače. U stvari, problem je što američko tržište nije toliko veliko i zrelo, a svi su požurili da izbace što je moguće više naslova i tu su se ispalili, jer došlo je do zasićenja. Neke najveći hitovi u Japanu nisu se pokazali toliko dobro u Americi. One Piece, koji u Japanu ima prednost od nekih 50% u odnosu na Naruta, što je prednost koju čitav ostatak sveta ne može da nadoknadi, nije baš hit kao neke druge mange. Nana takođe, koja bi u Japanu svaku shojo mangu ugazila u prah, osim možda Honey and Clover.
Japanci do skora čak nisu ostatak sveta shvatali ozbiljno. Pričam u poslovnom smislu. A i zašto bi, kada se i danas, posle uspona industrije stripa u Americi i Evropi, oba ova tržišta mere stotinama miliona dolara, a japansko, uprkos blagom padu, meri se milijardama. E onda su u Kodanshi (ove godine) shvatili da im je Shogakukan za vratom, a jedan od razloga je i 20 puta veća zarada na američkom tržištu (Viz je zajedničko vlasništvo Shogakukana i Shueishe). Videćemo ... |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
Edited by - ridiculus on 14/08/2008 02:11:10 |
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 01:32:28
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| A, da, Thompsonovu knjigu imam. Vredi svakog centa. Mada možda ne za početnike, jer je uglavnom tekst. Za njih je najbolji Taschenov Manga Design. |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 02:00:00
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Ne bude li ti teško, ponesi na sutrašnji (zapravo današnji) dejt tu knjigu da prelistam.
Od tih manga enciklopedija imam Paula Gravetta i prilično mi se sviđa kako je sve to obradio. |
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 02:09:17
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Ok.
Gravett je odličan kao uvod. On je u stvari jedini od pisaca knjiga o mangama (nije da ih ima mnogo) koji ne zna japanski, ali to nadoknađuje entuzijazmom. |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
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ordell
Senior Member
Slovenia
1898 Posts
Member since 20/08/2006 |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 12:25:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ridiculus
How do you feel about the prevalent opinion that the core of manga culture consists of schoolgirls, huge eyes, tentacles, magic powers, robots and speed lines?
Sadly, there are a lot of people who have a superficial knowledge of manga, just like there’s a lot of people who think American comics are all about superheroes...
Ovaj "superficial knowledge" ima zaista puno ljudi. Najbolji su mi oni koji uporno tvrde kako ne vole mangu upravo iz istih razloga - roboti, velike oči, super powers, bla bla... A kad ga pitaš šta od mangi je do sad pročitao, kaže da ništa, jer mu se jednostavno to ne svidja?! + nikad nije volio pokemone i "ostala"?? japanska sranja  |
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boris.predic
New Member
Bosnia and Herzegovina
161 Posts
Member since 26/12/2004 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
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supermark
stripovi.com suradnik
(1).jpg)
Croatia
29610 Posts
Member since 06/02/2007 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 20:41:10
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Ridiculuse, shvaam ja da si mi uvalio onu knjižurinu kako te ne bih više smarao na ovom topicu, ali ne vredi. Da li si čitao iil imaš mišljenje o nekom od sledećih naslova:
Arm of Kannon
Banana Fish
BLAME! (ovo sam čak i ja čitao, ali sam se setio da nismo o tome raspravljali)
Cowboy Bebop
Dark Goodbye (OEM)
Dark Metro
GetBeckers
Gyakushu
Gyo
Jing King of Bandits: Twilight Tales
Judas (nije onaj Bonellijev Džudas!)
Lupin III
Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service
Me and the Devil Blues: Vol. 1 Unreal Life Robert Johnson (ovo smo spominjali... kako ti se čini?)
Pop Japan Travel: Essential Otaku Guide TP By Makoto Nakajima
Portus
Priest
Redrum 327
Samurai Champlo
Variante
hmmmmm... ja sam mu ga baš dao po spisku. Take your time, ili ako ti je lakše reci da nisi ništa čitao. :)
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Edited by - DusMan on 15/08/2008 22:18:25 |
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 20:56:05
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| Ček', nisam kod kuće, za par sati. Setio sam se da bih mogao da stavim i jedan kratak tekst na engleskom, možda najbolji mogući uvod u svet mangi. |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 20:58:22
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Haha, kakav urnebesan opis mange:
GTO: vol 01
By Tohru Fujisawa - Meet Eikichi Onizuka, a 22-year-old virgin and ex-biker. Hes crude, foul-mouthed, and has a split-second temper. His goal? To be the greatest high school teacher in the world! Of course, the only reason he wants to be a teacher is so he can try and score with the hot students… Before Onizuka can become a teacher, hes got to work as a student teacher to earn his credentials. He may think hes the toughest guy on campus, but when he meets his class full of bullies, blackmailers and scheming sadists, hell have to prove it. Launching in authentic manga format (right-to-left)! One of the most popular manga titles in Japan, GTO has spawned a hit anime series as well as a live action drama. SC, 200pg, b&w. |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 21:02:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ridiculus
Ček', nisam kod kuće, za par sati.
Samo polako. Planirao sam da večeras izađem na ono tvoje gothic mesto, ali počinje neka oluja, pa ću verovatno biti uz komp cele noći. URA! |
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ordell
Senior Member
Slovenia
1898 Posts
Member since 20/08/2006 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 22:47:53
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Više od tjedan dana mi je trebalo da pročitam MW,jer sam sadržaj mi je bio toliko naporan da nisam bio u stanju prije ga pročitati. Zanimljivo kako Tezuka opet sa vrlo jednostavnim crtežom uspijeva stvoriti ozbiljnu dramu u nekoj vrlo mračnoj atmosferi.
Skoro 600 stranica epskog rada, punog
elemenata homoerotike, nasilja, bijesa, pitanja morale, političkih interesa, korupcije...
Ovo je strip koji se pamti, teško je sad staviti neku ocijenu na kraju, mada Tezuka (pored mnogo drugih) i za ovaj rad zaslužuje poštovanje. Vrhunski je MW, al ipak sa druge strane ne vjerujem da ću ga ikad više pročitati.
Ode to Kirihito ostaje moj favorit
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 22:51:19
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Ja nisam oduševljen sa Mw.
Mislim, Tezuka je to i kvalitet je standardan za njega,ali opet... biće da sam preveliki homofob. |
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Markos
Webmaster
Croatia
29200 Posts
Member since 27/08/2001 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 23:00:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DusMan
Ja nisam oduševljen sa Mw.
biće da sam preveliki homofob.
Ajde, ajde, ne trebas se pretvarati:) |
Trouble will find me |
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ordell
Senior Member
Slovenia
1898 Posts
Member since 20/08/2006 |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 23:07:49
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Po meni, rad je dobar, mada mi se osobno neke stvari u stripu ne svidjaju, u vezi homoerotike - mislim, dupli šok, kad se pored svega radi i o katoličkom svećeniku, pa onda ono u jami kad je Yuki bio još mali... X( Zato i kažem da mi je bio dosta naporan za čitati :)
Od tvoje liste dusmane ja sam jedino Gyo čitao, i to samo 1.vol, 2. me još čeka, nikako da počnem, ne znam, nije mi sjeo, bolji mi je onda Uzumaki. Inače, imaš opis na stripovi homepage-u, ako slučajno nisi vidio.
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Edited by - ordell on 15/08/2008 23:39:29 |
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ridiculus
Senior Member
1663 Posts
Member since 11/06/2008 |
Posted - 16/08/2008 : 00:09:38
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quote:
Originally posted by DusMan
Ridiculuse, shvaam ja da si mi uvalio onu knjižurinu kako te ne bih više smarao na ovom topicu, ali ne vredi. Da li si čitao iil imaš mišljenje o nekom od sledećih naslova:
Arm of Kannon
Banana Fish
BLAME! (ovo sam čak i ja čitao, ali sam se setio da nismo o tome raspravljali)
Cowboy Bebop
Dark Goodbye (OEM)
Dark Metro
GetBeckers
Gyakushu
Gyo
Jing King of Bandits: Twilight Tales
Judas (nije onaj Bonellijev Džudas!)
Lupin III
Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service
Me and the Devil Blues: Vol. 1 Unreal Life Robert Johnson (ovo smo spominjali... kako ti se čini?)
Pop Japan Travel: Essential Otaku Guide TP By Makoto Nakajima
Portus
Priest
Redrum 327
Samurai Champlo
Variante
hmmmmm... ja sam mu ga baš dao po spisku. Take your time, ili ako ti je lakše reci da nisi ništa čitao. :)
Dođem kući ne shvatajući opasnost i čeka me OVO!!!
Dobro, ajd' ono što znam, ali vrlo kratko sada, našao sam neke slike sa Comiketa, moram da ih stavim na ZS forum (i nema mnogo žena na slikama ovaj put, verovatno će biti u ostala dva dana).
U principu ne čitam mange rađene po animama, znači Cowboy i Samurai () otpadaju. Kažu da je Bebop daleko lošiji od anime, čiji sam ja fan, pa nisam hteo da kvarim utiske...dobro, lažem, kvario bih utiske, ali neću dok ne izmisle sobu sa pogonom relativnosti pa da prođe godina dana u njoj, a napolju samo minut. E, onda bih stizao.
Banana Fish je odličan. Da je više takvih mangi objavljivanih u Americi. Možda i ne najbolji rad Akimi Yoshide, koja je danas u Japanu jedna od, recimo pet, najcenjenijih ženskih autora, ali ništa drugo nije prevođeno. Čudan rad: shojo koji to, u stvari, i nije; radnja se dešava u Americi, crtež pod uticajem Otoma. Triler s protagonistom fenomenalnog imena Ash Lynx... mafija, Vijetnam, eksperimentalne droge, šta ćeš više! Kada bih birao jedno delo s onog spiska, to bih izabrao. Međutim, ako ti nagoveštaji homoseksualnosti smetaju, zaboravi.
BLAME! je crtački fenomenalan i Nihei je jako specifičan i darovit crtač. Arhitekta po struci, valjda zato ima jako dobru kontrolu prostora. Ali scenariji su mu malo ... čudni. To je, u stvari, dosta nalik na Francuze po pristupu mediju, samo mračnije (iako se tamo lože na takav "intelektualistički" mrak).
Arm of Kannon (Birth u Japanu, da, Birth, na engleskom!) je nasilan do ekstrema. Eto, za ljubitelje Gantza nečeg još krvavijeg. Imaš tu i neku demonsku ruku nalik na onu iz Witchblade, samo što je Witchblade dečji strip za ovo (što nije uvek loša stvar ).
Šta još znam... Gyo. To ti je kao Ptice, samo sa ribama (dobro, pojednostavljujem stvari, ali to je najlakši način) koje izlaze na kopno. Mislim, Ito je OK, ali njegov problem sa mnom je taj što on pretenduje na mesto koje Umezu zauzima i gde je neprikosnoven; identična vrsta horora, Ito ima malo uglađeniji crtež, ali ne prenosi toliku jezu ili napetost. Više neku neobičnost ili neprijatnost.
Ajd, znam još dva-tri naslova, ostaviću za sutra, imam sad još nešto da stavim ovde (za razliku od tebe, ja NEMAM čitavu noć ) |
Thought's the slave of life, and life Time's fool. |
Edited by - ridiculus on 16/08/2008 07:15:46 |
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DusMan
Advanced Member
5067 Posts
Member since 12/11/2001 |
Posted - 16/08/2008 : 00:12:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ordell
Od tvoje liste dusmane ja sam jedino Gyo čitao, i to samo 1.vol, 2. me još čeka, nikako da počnem, ne znam, nije mi sjeo, bolji mi je onda Uzumaki. Inače, imaš opis na stripovi homepage-u, ako slučajno nisi vidio.
Uzumaki imam već, hvala na interesovanju. :) |
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Manga - čita se i preporuke...
