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The Hammer of Hell
Average Member
Croatia
945 Posts
Member since 10/12/2006 |
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jaki
Advanced Member
Croatia
25856 Posts
Member since 13/03/2004 |
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The Hammer of Hell
Average Member
Croatia
945 Posts
Member since 10/12/2006 |
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The Hammer of Hell
Average Member
Croatia
945 Posts
Member since 10/12/2006 |
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik
Serbia
11876 Posts
Member since 03/11/2002 |
 Posted - 25/10/2007 : 11:40:22
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Iiiii - preostala dva dela OMD kasne, tako da je conclusion tek u decembru. Ako opet ne zakasne.
Šta znam, čitam ovo, i pitam se kad je poslednji put JMS napisao nešto odlično (a ne samo vrlo dobro, kao što je ovaj novi Thor, ili kao što je bilo Supreme power). I nekako mi se čini da je trbalo da se pokpui i ode sa Spajdija odmah po završetku totemističke sage. Ne toliko zbog Sins past (mada, naravno, i zbog toga), koliko zbog The other, te War at home, te Back in black - koji su meni bili još malo pa nečitljivi. Sins past su, uz sve (enormne) zamerke priči barem bili odlično ispripovedani. Ovo ostalo nije ni to.
Let's have Brand new day rihgt away, sez I (and mostly everebody lese). |
DISCLAIMER: Mišljenja izražena u mojim postovima mišljenja su jednog forumaša, a ne izdavackih kuca sa kojima saradjujem. Ko hoce da se raspravlja u vezi njih – može, naravno, ali raspravlja se sa forumašem Djoletom, ne sa „urednikom toga-i-toga” ili „prevodiocem toga-i-toga”. Za zvanicno mišljenje u vezi nekog izdanja, dogadjaja ili licnosti možete se obratiti izdavackim kucama putem njihovih zvanicnih kanala komunikacije. Hvala. |
Edited by - Djole on 25/10/2007 11:40:48 |
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IGMAN2
Senior Member
2404 Posts
Member since 08/05/2003 |
Posted - 31/12/2007 : 18:04:55
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Ipak su to napravili!
Mislio sam da se,ipak,neće usuditi, a opet,s druge strane, bilo je i za očekivat da predstoji velika promjena, kako su otezali sa izdavanjima i šopali nas najavama ( zato ne mislim da sam ovom objavom nekom uništio draž čitanja i neizvjesnost )
Pitao sam se imaju li snage u Marvelu da se riješe MJ i Peterovog braka, a sad je pitanje koliko će potrajati dok opet sve ne vrate ns staro. Tim više što se Mefisto dodatno naslađivao Peterovom i MJ mukom, otkrivši im...(OK, čitajte sami
Ima da Parker zbog ovog izvuće Mefista i iz samog pakla |
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realist
Senior Member
Croatia
1206 Posts
Member since 09/09/2003 |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 14:41:11
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| Harry Osborn is back, ugh... ali, najvažnije je da je stara krepalina May još uvijek tu, i da sad nema nikakve razlike između Amazing i Ultimate naslova... solo Peter Parker koji živi sa svojom tetom, jupi, moje molitve su uslišane, thank you Santa (or Satan) :( katastrofa... |
Diplomiraj brzo i bez puno truda:
http://studirajlukavo.blog.hr/ |
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TinK2
Junior Member
Croatia
321 Posts
Member since 31/12/2007 |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 15:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by realist
Harry Osborn is back, ugh... ali, najvažnije je da je stara krepalina May još uvijek tu, i da sad nema nikakve razlike između Amazing i Ultimate naslova... solo Peter Parker koji živi sa svojom tetom, jupi, moje molitve su uslišane, thank you Santa (or Satan) :( katastrofa...
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 16:23:58
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quote:
Originally posted by TinK2
quote:
Originally posted by realist
Harry Osborn is back, ugh... ali, najvažnije je da je stara krepalina May još uvijek tu, i da sad nema nikakve razlike između Amazing i Ultimate naslova... solo Peter Parker koji živi sa svojom tetom, jupi, moje molitve su uslišane, thank you Santa (or Satan) :( katastrofa...
Nije za smeh, trebali bismo skupa plakati... |
Whenever You need hard center, I will be there... |
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IGMAN2
Senior Member
2404 Posts
Member since 08/05/2003 |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 20:16:29
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Ma nije baš toliko loš bio 'One more day'
pucao je više na osjećaje, umjesto šamaranje sa super zločincima
Al istina je ovo što realist kaže, čitanje idućih brojeva moglo bi titi mučno. Sve se je vratilo na početak i to baš i ne izgleda previše uzbudljivo,... ali
Treba vjerovati u Marvelove poznate standarde -koliko god mjenjali ili se likovi susretali sa globalnim krizama i uništenjima - na kraju se sve vrati kao da ništa nije bilo.
Ovo je samo jedam mali marvelov eksperiment i vjerojatno još ove godine sam Mefisto će ih moliti da se opet ožene |
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Mailman
Senior Member
Croatia
1690 Posts
Member since 26/12/2001 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:12:08
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Ne znam da li mi se ikada dosada dogodilo da se zaista uzrujam zbog jednog stripa.
E, Amazing Spider-Man #545 je i to donio. 
Katastrofa od ideja, katastrofa od izvedbe, uništen predobar lik bez ikakvog razloga i potrebe. Najbolji par u kompletnom Marvelu, a možda i DC-u, razoren zato što se nije sviđao Joeu Quesadi.
Stvarno grozno.
Brand New Day Spidey možda i ne bude tako loš, barem u početku, ali sama ideja resetiranja zadnjih 20 godina Spider-Mana je toliko grozomorna da bi posljedice mogle biti... ma, nikakve. Kao da je ikoga (osim nas internet frikova  ) briga. |
How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation, used to lower people's expectations, thereby enhancing my ability to effectively manuever within any given situation?
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 12:09:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mailman
Ne znam da li mi se ikada dosada dogodilo da se zaista uzrujam zbog jednog stripa.
E, Amazing Spider-Man #545 je i to donio.
Katastrofa od ideja, katastrofa od izvedbe, uništen predobar lik bez ikakvog razloga i potrebe. Najbolji par u kompletnom Marvelu, a možda i DC-u, razoren zato što se nije sviđao Joeu Quesadi.
Stvarno grozno.
Brand New Day Spidey možda i ne bude tako loš, barem u početku, ali sama ideja resetiranja zadnjih 20 godina Spider-Mana je toliko grozomorna da bi posljedice mogle biti... ma, nikakve. Kao da je ikoga (osim nas internet frikova ) briga.
Mozda hoce, a mozda i ne.
Samo vreme ce nam pokazati da li je potez bio valjan ili ne.
Po meni, nacinje je katastrofalna greska. Greska koja bi lik Spaydija mogla ponovo da gurne u senku, kada je, cini se, dosao na vrhunac slave posle toliko godina... |
Whenever You need hard center, I will be there... |
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realist
Senior Member
Croatia
1206 Posts
Member since 09/09/2003 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 14:31:13
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Točno, zapravo, sam raspad braka i nije toliko bitan, nego način na koji je to izvedeno...
Mogli su napraviti neki superherojski "Melrose place" gdje bi Peter prevario MJ ili obrnuto. Ovako, i Civil war je potpuno izgubio kredibilitet (ako ga je ikad i imao), jer je poništeno otkrivanje Spideyevog identiteta.
Drugi kiks je to što May sigurno ne bi pristala na takav rasplet, jer stara mumija je imala dug i ispunjen život.
Treće, nakon 40+ godina izlaženja, teško mi je povjerovati da bi moj čovjek Parker sklopio dogovor s vragom i otkantao ženu i nerođeno dijete zbog babuskare koja je trebala odapeti prije bar 150 brojeva (zapravo tada i jest odapela, ali...uh, joj, kad se sjetim...)
Četvrto, smrt Harrya Osborna je bila jedna od rijetkih stvari koja je imala solidan i efektan završetak i stvarno nije trebalo vraćati tog pičkastog neurotika.
Peto, što je sad s Liz Allen i njihovim djetetom?!? Eh, ah, jel ima netko aspirin? :) |
Diplomiraj brzo i bez puno truda:
http://studirajlukavo.blog.hr/ |
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Mailman
Senior Member
Croatia
1690 Posts
Member since 26/12/2001 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 22:58:23
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Evo jednog pozitivnog osvrta na cijeli cirkus oko OMD-a (One More Day, a ne Orchestral Manoeuvres in Dark ):
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141633
Ima neke good points.
Still hated it, though. |
How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation, used to lower people's expectations, thereby enhancing my ability to effectively manuever within any given situation?
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 23:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mailman
Evo jednog pozitivnog osvrta na cijeli cirkus oko OMD-a (One More Day, a ne Orchestral Manoeuvres in Dark ):
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141633
Ima neke good points.
Still hated it, though.
Svakako da ima uboda.
Ali sama ideja da se ovako nesto ucini je ogroman udarac za Spaydija koji je kao sto milion puta rekoh trenutno na vrhuncu slave i kao single hero se itekako nosi sa onolikim timovima super heroja... |
Whenever You need hard center, I will be there... |
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 23:23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by realist
Točno, zapravo, sam raspad braka i nije toliko bitan, nego način na koji je to izvedeno...
Mogli su napraviti neki superherojski "Melrose place" gdje bi Peter prevario MJ ili obrnuto. Ovako, i Civil war je potpuno izgubio kredibilitet (ako ga je ikad i imao), jer je poništeno otkrivanje Spideyevog identiteta.
Drugi kiks je to što May sigurno ne bi pristala na takav rasplet, jer stara mumija je imala dug i ispunjen život.
Treće, nakon 40+ godina izlaženja, teško mi je povjerovati da bi moj čovjek Parker sklopio dogovor s vragom i otkantao ženu i nerođeno dijete zbog babuskare koja je trebala odapeti prije bar 150 brojeva (zapravo tada i jest odapela, ali...uh, joj, kad se sjetim...)
Četvrto, smrt Harrya Osborna je bila jedna od rijetkih stvari koja je imala solidan i efektan završetak i stvarno nije trebalo vraćati tog pičkastog neurotika.
Peto, što je sad s Liz Allen i njihovim djetetom?!? Eh, ah, jel ima netko aspirin? :)
Slazem se sa prve cetiri tacke.
Ne slazem se oko pete: Trebace ti nesto mnogo jace od aspirina da preguras ovako nesto...
A sto se tetka May tice ona je bila starice koja je pomogla decaku kada mu je bili najteze i njena uloga se tu donekle i zavrsava.
Zrtvovati PORODICU zarad tetke koja te je cuvala kao tinejdzera je van svake pameti koliko god on bio sentimentalno vezan za nju...
Ciste gluposti i sramotan nacin da se sprovede najveca glupost od kada je spaydi nastao.
Pitam se sta je sledece? Verovatno ce i golupcici iz F4 da se razvedu kako bi marvel na miru nastavio da gradi solo karijeru gospodina fantasticnog. Ko zna? Vidite i sami da su parovi totalno AUT u novokonponovanom rukovotstvu marvela... |
Whenever You need hard center, I will be there... |
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IGMAN2
Senior Member
2404 Posts
Member since 08/05/2003 |
Posted - 03/01/2008 : 15:42:41
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Ja se, opet, ne slažem da je Parker trebao prevariti MJ, pa da im se brak onda raspadne. To bi bila totalna besmislica, jer njihova veza
je bila prejaka i izdržala je mnoge krize. Upravo zato je Mefisto tražio za cijenu njihovu ljubav, a ne dušu. Poništenjem te veze najviše bi naudio drugoj strani, dok oni koji žrtvuju dušu za da spase nekog, u paklu ispadaju kao mučenici i pravednici, i kako kaže Mefisto- Gdje je tu zabava. To objašnjenje je vrlo dobro i ima smisla.
Ono što mi nema smisla je otkrivanje Spider-manovog identiteta.
To je van svake pameti i u suprotnosti sa svime onim što je lik
Spider-mana/Parkera. Kao da nije imao dovoljno problema kad
je Green Goblin otkrio tko je, i nije li baš radi toga nastradala Gwen. I sad on odjednom iz čista mira otkrije cijelom svjetu tko je on. Kretenizam!
Kao da je javno pozvao sve zločince (a ima ih more kojima se zamjerio)da mu se osvete na obitelji. Što je tražio- to je i dobio.
Da li je brak važniji od tetke? Pa teško da je. Tetka mu je sve što je imao, nakon pogiblje roditelja i strica. May je, u stvari, postala njegova majka, koja sad umire zbog Peterove greške.
Poništenjem veze, MJ je i dalje živa i zdrava i ne sjeća se da je išta izgubila. S druge strane koliko dugo bi se održao taj brak pod pritiskom smrti May.
E sad, kako to da je jedan takav pozitivac kao Parker, pristao na dogovor s vragom. Pa tražio je pomoć na sve strane i -ništa.
jedini koji mu je nešto ponudio bio je Mefisto. neki izbor baš i nije imao.
Pitanje je sad, kako Mefisto može mjenjati povijest kako hoće, a da ga druga strana ne sprijeći. Ili, možda bar Dr. Strange.
Tu je još jedna stvar. Oni koji su čitali 'House of M', znaju da je svijet bila 'malčice'preuredila Scarlet Witch. Svijet mira i blagostanja kojim vladaju mutanti. Tu je živ Peterov stric Ben, kao i Gwen, koju je Peter i oženio i s kojim ima i sina.
Nakon poništenja tog i takvog svijeta, Parkeru su ostala sva sjećanja na njega. Pa i na njegov brak s Gwen i na njihovog sina.
Čak kad bi se i sad sjećao na brak s MJ, taj prekid mu ne bi bio ništa što već nije prošao s sjećanjem na život s Gwen i sinom. |
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henry
Senior Member
Serbia
1346 Posts
Member since 20/09/2005 |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 02:49:06
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A šta se drugo moglo očekivati kada je editor-in-chief osoba koja je prvenstveno crtač...
Sa ovakvim brisanjem/menjanjem "povijesti" čovek ne može a da se ne zapita - kako sledeći put da uopšte nešto shvatiš ozbiljno u major story arc-u, kad će posle svega par epizoda da ubace neki retcon ili slično i onda jovo-nanovo, sve iz početka, samo smo se zezali, reko nam Quesada a mi pokušali da od bljuzge sačinimo česmovaču |
"Hegel is arguing that the reality is merely an a priori adjunct of non-naturalistic ethics, Kant via the categorical imperative is holding that ontologically it exists only in the imagination, and Marx is claiming it was offside."
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik
Serbia
11876 Posts
Member since 03/11/2002 |
Posted - 15/01/2008 : 18:37:51
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DISCLAIMER: Mišljenja izražena u mojim postovima mišljenja su jednog forumaša, a ne izdavackih kuca sa kojima saradjujem. Ko hoce da se raspravlja u vezi njih – može, naravno, ali raspravlja se sa forumašem Djoletom, ne sa „urednikom toga-i-toga” ili „prevodiocem toga-i-toga”. Za zvanicno mišljenje u vezi nekog izdanja, dogadjaja ili licnosti možete se obratiti izdavackim kucama putem njihovih zvanicnih kanala komunikacije. Hvala. |
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
Posted - 15/01/2008 : 20:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by IGMAN2
Ja se, opet, ne slažem da je Parker trebao prevariti MJ, pa da im se brak onda raspadne. To bi bila totalna besmislica, jer njihova veza
je bila prejaka i izdržala je mnoge krize.
Upravo. Pretvorilo bi se u lose sinhronizovanu spanjolsku seriju... |
Whenever You need hard center, I will be there... |
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zveles
Advanced Member
Croatia
3938 Posts
Member since 28/03/2003 |
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zveles
Advanced Member
Croatia
3938 Posts
Member since 28/03/2003 |
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Witchblade
Senior Member
Croatia
2754 Posts
Member since 22/07/2002 |
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Man_of_Steel
Advanced Member
Serbia
3708 Posts
Member since 24/10/2007 |
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realist
Senior Member
Croatia
1206 Posts
Member since 09/09/2003 |
Posted - 17/01/2008 : 09:46:53
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Evo jedan review da se nasmijete, ova epizoda je do "One more day" bila među najgorima u Spideyevom opusu. Nakon OMD, ispada da je ovaj team up Spidermana i Herculesa pravo malo remek-djelo iz 70-tih :)
Comics : Marvel Team-Up #28
This story is part of a Lookback Series: Worst of the Worst
Background...
A short while back, Worst of The Worst featured the Skin-Deep story by Gerry Conway, featuring the rather unimaginative villain "Skin-Head". At the time, I pointed out that Gerry was a pretty solid writer, and his skin-skulled candiate for WoTW was rather out of character.
Be that as it may, this months burnt offering to the gods of classic bad comics is another Conway story - "The City Stealers". But first, some history.
This story comes from 1974, which is quite some time back. This is in the days before Facade, before Maximum Carnage, and before Mackie and Byrne ever stepped in to trample the good name of Spider-Man.
Back in those times, asking a well-schooled Spider-Fan to name the worst ever Spidey stories would reliably result in two near-guaranteed responses - Bill Mantlo's "Death-Dance of the Hypno-Hustler", from Spectacular Spider-Man #24, and this gem... "The City-Stealers".
In Detail...
"The City-Stealers"
Replace
Marvel Team-Up #28 Edit
Summary: Spider-Man & Hercules (vs. the City Stealers)
Editor: Roy Thomas
Writer: Gerry Conway
Pencils: Jim Mooney
Inker: Vince Colletta
Dec 1974 : SM Title : Marvel Team-Up Title Index
Reprinted In: Essential Marvel Team-Up #2
A slow start, to be sure. Spidey swings around the city, bemoaning the fact that it's been two weeks and he still hasn't found an apartment. This is a fairly typical tie-in to 'current' events in Amazing Spider-Man - Marvel Team-Up really was the second Spider-Man title at the time, with Spectacular Spider-Man #1 still being a couple of years away.
Meanwhile, his unwitting team-upster, Hercules, is walking the docks in contemplation, musing on how strange the world is that some men live in wealth, while street bums douse their sorrows in cheap liquor. Well, I'm no classicist, but I thought that Hercules was raised as a mortal, and would have been well versed with the basic inequities of life. Heck, as half-god and half-man, surely he of all people should be well-acquainted with disparity!
So, while Peter continues with the mental re-caps, and Hercules ponders with amazement the kinds of matters which really have no reason to amaze him, we cue an earthquake. An earthquake? Yep, a really good one, which throws a pretty girl out of a window in the side of the Empire State Building. Fortunately Spidey is there to save her. But let's run that scene again.
Firstly, the girl is thrown out of the top half of the window... a good six feet above the base of the window. Through a plate glass window, that is - without getting a scratch. Secondly, any earthquake that's going to toss people out of windows will level damn near most of Manhattan. New York isn't in quake country, and so the buildings there aren't built to absorb the shock. A quake of that magnitude, you can count on thousands dead and close on a million homeless. At this point, we start to suspect that this story is lacking a little in the realism department!
So, Spidey heads off to college, to the seismography lab, to find out what is going on. Fortunately, in the 70's, even non-quake prone areas were completely rigged with remote sensing instruments which could rapidly report by telementry and diagnose that there are exactly two points of origin for the quake. And even more fortunately, even though Peter is a bio-chem student, he is also the 'star pupil' of the geology department. As soon as he enters the door, the professor immediately ignores the hundreds of other students, and explains the whole scenario to Peter, without even being asked.
This is a fairly common phenomena - the idea that "science is science". Very few comic book writers grasp the idea that for example an expert in gene-splicing technology might not be able to assemble a nuclear bomb, or that a molecular chemist might be a little rusty on the principles of tectonic plate interaction. Still, of course even though Peter only manages to attend one lecture in four of the courses he is actually enrolled for, he is also the star pupil of every single science department in the entire university. Let's move on.
Spidey heads off to check out one of the sources. Meanwhile, Hercules is guided by instinct to the other. He muses "I sense that 'twas no natural occurence...", and "I can feel the very ground trembling, like a woman in fear..." but of course let's not ignore "With luck, I will settle this matter swiftly, and 'twill still be time this eve for a goblet of wine... some women... and a song." Move over Homer, Gerry's on the job!
Well, Herc finds the source alright. He opens a hole in the ground, and reveals a robotic alien being, manipulating a device which is clearly the source of the vibrations. The robot is fully prepared for this situation. He has been programmed with all the essential English phrases he will need. He eloquently echoes... "An intruder. The intruder must die. Kill the intruder. Kill the intruder now."
Well, perhaps you understand why not just anybody can be a script writer? It's a skilled job, and it requires years of training.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man finds a similar robot with device under an overpass at the other end of the island. He attacks, the robot shrugs him off and continues with his work. Spidey re-attacks. The robot isn't interested, he knocks Spidey out. But hang-on, the robot is interested, he chains Spidey up. An alien robot with hyper-technology uses chains to tie people up? That's a bit odd. But wait, that's just the start.
The robots aren't interested in fighting, but then they take the time to disable their victims. They speak English, but only to babble about intruders. They were at opposite ends of the island, but when our heroes awake, the robots are applying their strange machines in the same location. So why did they move? Why did the robots bring their victims with them when they moved?
Oh, it dosn't matter. Hercules breaks his chains... but is then hit with a zap-ray, and knocked unconscious again. But Spidey tries talking. He asks what the aliens are doing. Oh, now they speak perfect English. "There seems no point in concealing information from you, intruder." Well, I beg to differ on that. There's always a good reason to keep your plans secret from Super-Heroes! But that's OK, surely we want to hear what their plans are?
Well, you say that now. But wait until you hear the plan! It seems that the earth-digging machines are going to sever the interior foundation of Manhattan Island. Then, a Special Nuclear Submarine is waiting with attached chains (two of them, as we can see from the picture) to pull the island of Manhattan out of New York Bay, to a previously designated point... until they receive a Two Billion Dollar ransom!
Well, do you want me to cover the seventeen fundamental flaws with this entire plot, or can you imagine them yourself?
Let's just say that Spidey and Hercules get free again, and knock out the robots, reveal the forces behind them. But it's too late, Manhattan has already moved! No problems, Hercules grabs the chains and pulls the island back into place. New York has been saved - again!
In General...
More corny than a bag of corn-flavoured pop-corn. Worse dialog than the out-takes from a cheap-budget Arnie film. Plot holes big enough to sink Manhattan. This story certainly stakes a good claim to being dumbest ever Spider-Man story.
But that's not quite the whole picture. You see, this story comes from just around the end of the Silver Age, and there's a bit of a rose-tinted aspect in looking back nearly 30 years which makes a final judgement just a little more tricky.
Another angle which is often mentioned in regards to The City-Stealers is the selection of Hercules for the team-up. Hercules is certainly a larger-than-life figure, and his classic adventures do have a flavour of myth and unreality... especially when he re-tells them over a goblet of wine. Perhaps the tale should be taken in that vein. In fact, I believe that Conway himself raised this argument in his own defense for a story which I understand he openly admits is "not one of his best".
This story is undeniably stupid. But is it offensively stupid? Couldn't it just be one last harmless romp before the world of comics entered a new age? Isn't there a place for a bit of epic exaggeration every now and again?
Overall Rating...
I have to state for the record that this is indeed a terrible story. It was indisputably a serious contender for the worst ever Spider-Man story of its time.
There are a couple of arguments which can be raised in it's defence, and I am sorely tempted to toss in a half-web in recognition... but I shall resist the urge, and shall instead dub this story a true 1-webber! This story has earned it's place amongst The Worst of The Worst.
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alen
Advanced Member
Croatia
4621 Posts
Member since 14/02/2005 |
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One more day
