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Peyo
Advanced Member



Croatia
10062 Posts

Member since 28/10/2005

Posted - 27/12/2019 : 18:18:53  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Peyo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ovog Bignottija sam već negdje vidio od nekog drugog crtača. Ne mogu se sad sjetiti, ali mislim da je dosta poznat.
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 27/12/2019 : 19:46:38  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peyo

Ovog Bignottija sam već negdje vidio od nekog drugog crtača. Ne mogu se sad sjetiti, ali mislim da je dosta poznat.

ovo? bilo je na ovoj temi pre nego sto je tinypic izbrisao sve slike

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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 27/12/2019 : 19:48:40  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vlladimir

Francesco Francavilla

i ovo

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Peyo
Advanced Member



Croatia
10062 Posts

Member since 28/10/2005

Posted - 27/12/2019 : 19:57:43  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Peyo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vlaadisha

quote:
Originally posted by Peyo

Ovog Bignottija sam već negdje vidio od nekog drugog crtača. Ne mogu se sad sjetiti, ali mislim da je dosta poznat.

ovo? bilo je na ovoj temi pre nego sto je tinypic izbrisao sve slike





Da, ali mi se čini i da je Bignotti to od nekog "posudio".
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 28/12/2019 : 05:12:26  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
na drugom topicu dotakli smo se roja liktenstajna i srodne teme aproprijacije

tad sam branio meni inace nesimpaticnog umetnika

quote:
Originally posted by Vlaadisha

Sto se tice Liktenstajna, mislim da ga ne treba porediti sa stripom na taj nacin. To me podseca na onu anegdotu kad mu je rodjeni sin rekao: "Kladim se da ti ne mozes da crtas ovako dobro, a tata?", pokazujuci na strip o Mikiju Mausu. Nisam neki ljubitelj Liktenstajna, ali mislim da je on bio zainteresovan za strip na drugi nacin, kao deo popularne kulture, opsednut vise formom i tehnikom stampe nego sadrzajem. Mislim da se njemu cak dopadala ta estetika, te cetiri boje, raster, onomatopeje i ostalo. Ima tu i humora i ironije, isticanje elemenata kica i sunda u stripu - ali i samoironije, jer nije on ni sebe shvatao ozbiljno: "Sta god da je ovo, nije bitno za umetnost." Ceo taj pop-art i sve te konzerve supe su duhovit odgovor na apstraktnu umetnost koja se otudjila od obicnog coveka.

Mozda nije morao da kopira postojece kadrove, ali to je bila uobicajena praksa pripadnika tog pravca (Vorhol nije izmisljao novi dizajn koka-kole ili se trudio da sam nacrta realistican portret Elvisa, recimo). Ide to jos u nazad, do onog "ovo nije lula" ili, jos bolje - do pisora u galeriji. Nikom nije ni palo na pamet da je to Disan sam izvajao, a kamoli da ga kao vajara poredi sa, ne znam, Mikelandjelom. U pitanju je vise manifest, umetnost koja u zizu stavlja ideju a ne vestinu. Ima tu dosta i zajebancije.



quote:
Originally posted by Vlaadisha
quote:
Originally posted by cat claw

''Isticanje elemenata kica i sunda u stripu'' je jadan izgovor posto elementi koje je on koristio nicim ne ukazuju na sund i kic.
Samo cu objasniti sta sam time mislio (posto se u ostalom slazemo). Ako pogledate njegove slike inspirisane stripom, videcete da je birao kadrove kojima dominira melodrama i akcija. Upravo ta dva elementa su neke od odlika kica, odnosno sunda; drugim recima, u pitanju su scene koje odisu preteranom sentimentalnoscu, bez umetnickih pretenzija, s namerom da zabave citaoca. Realno, stripovi koje je precrtavao, pogotovo ovi ljubici, ekvivalent su petparackih romana i latinoamerickih sapunica. Druga je stvar sto smo mi skloni da to previdimo zbog nase ljubavi prema crtacu, zbog dubljeg poznavanja medija ili prosto nostalgije. Mi imamo i znanja i zelje da nadjemo korene jednog velikog crtaca u tim ljubicima, da neke druge kadrove precizno smestimo u istoriju stripa i damo im novi znacaj - da vidimo "veliku sliku". Po linkovanim primerima jasno je da Liktenstajn nije bio bog zna kakav crtac, ali opet, nekako se on ni ne bavi samim crtezom - nego stripom kao proizvodom. Vidim i ja potcenjivacki stav prema mediju, ali budimo iskreni - comic books kojima se on uglavnom bavio nisu ni zasluzile mnogo vise (Marvel je tek pocinjao, Kramba nema ni na vidiku). Indikativno je da se on ne dotice novinskih klasika ili Evropljana - oni nisu deo potrosacke kulture poput koka-kole ili zvaka.

S druge strane, mozda tu ima i neke ljubavi prema obicnim, svakodnevnim stvarima kojih su elitisti gnusali ili ih ignorisali... Kao sto je Vorholu stvarno bila draga ona supa.


moram dodati jos jednu olaksavajucu okolnost:

liktenstajnove radove prvi put sam video uzivo nakon gornjih citata. priznajem da postoji jos jedan faktor na koji sam zaboravio, a to je velicina. tek u tom slucaju mozete da zaboravite na lose precrtane kadrove iz stripova.

vratio sam se na ovu raspravu jer ne mogu da oprostim recentan slucaj, kad je rad umetnika po imenu kaws prodat na aukciji za skoro 15 miliona dolara... rec je o simpsons, naravno:



nepotrebno je reci da je original (levo) tek najamni rad za nekoliko stotina dolara... s druge strane, ne radi se o kreatoru popularnih likova, a ne zaboravimo ni originalni omot legendarnog albuma... na kom verovatno isto tako nisu potpisani originalni fotografi...
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 28/12/2019 : 05:15:16  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
pitanja legalnosti i legitimnosti se namecu kroz ceo ovaj topic (iako bih ja radije pricao o tehnikalijama, al ajde), pa evo jos jedan nedavni primer:



https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07/10/arthur-suydam-killing-joke-homage-cover-swipe-claims/?fbclid=IwAR3azRF6dL1ucew8G50mXSYFbRZmjL9imZVpjDD0ruefeuleLAYEJYmJDHs
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 01/12/2020 : 17:34:42  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 01/12/2020 : 17:41:34  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
za ljubitelje Diznija: Barks vs Murry

https://www.cbarks.dk/THECOPYCAT.htm
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 01/12/2020 : 17:46:07  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 01/12/2020 : 17:48:34  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
shigeru mizuki je isto citao amere

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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 12/03/2021 : 18:32:46  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ovaj rani hawkman se cita kao gomila citata flasha i valijanta





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going going
Advanced Member



Serbia
11352 Posts

Member since 24/04/2012

Posted - 13/03/2021 : 01:15:22  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send going going a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vlaadisha

ovaj rani hawkman se cita kao gomila citata flasha i valijanta





Da, ali deluje interesantno. Je l ovo iz Golden Agea?
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 13/03/2021 : 01:35:31  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
da, 1941.
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 13/03/2021 : 01:48:17  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 11/04/2021 : 02:25:58  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
život nas ponekad odvede na neku čudnu stranu pa se čovek nađe u situaciji da čita marvelov strip o kantri pevaču, koji crta niko drugi do dan barry (flash gordon)... a tamo sligon iz princa valijanta




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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 11/04/2021 : 02:29:20  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
jaime hernandez (love and rockets) vs
glyn dyllon (shade the changing man, nao of brown)



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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 11/04/2021 : 02:30:24  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
adam hughes vs audrey hepburn

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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 11/04/2021 : 02:31:09  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i da ne ljutim ninela, jedan post on topic

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Jozzinelli
Senior Member



1592 Posts

Member since 10/04/2011

Posted - 08/10/2021 : 05:21:42  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Jozzinelli a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Mek Koj nema alternativu
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Vlaadisha
Advanced Member



USA
3303 Posts

Member since 21/07/2004

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 05:46:48  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Vlaadisha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
spidey je kirbyju bio jedna od retkih slabih tacaka

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going going
Advanced Member



Serbia
11352 Posts

Member since 24/04/2012

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 17:57:39  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send going going a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jozzinelli






Ko je autor ove leve naslovne strane? I to je naslovna strana kojeg stripa?
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Paka01
stripovi.com suradnik



Croatia
11442 Posts

Member since 14/02/2009

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 18:04:44  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send Paka01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Boris Vallejo, mislim da je to samo ilustracija, da nije vezana direktno za neki strip, no nisam siguran.

Would a new flood please finally come? A real rain and an assortment of plagues
And when all is said and done, even the Devil won't care enough to spit in the mud


https://www.last.fm/user/Pakaa
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jaki
Advanced Member



Croatia
25908 Posts

Member since 13/03/2004

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 18:44:37  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send jaki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Creepy,Errie...

Ja sam fetišist papira!
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ridiculus
Senior Member



1404 Posts

Member since 11/06/2008

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 18:48:09  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send ridiculus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To sam i ja isprva pomislio... nešto od Warrena. Vampirella, 1984...

Ali ne mogu da nađem.

In Love, if Love be Love, if Love be ours,
Faith and unfaith can ne'er be equal powers
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ridiculus
Senior Member



1404 Posts

Member since 11/06/2008

Posted - 10/10/2021 : 19:06:51  Show Profile Show Extended Profile  Send ridiculus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dakle, ovde ne idu samo naslovnice, kako mi se činilo po naslovu? Nisam do sada stigao da pregledam temu.

Onda, evo malo Alexa Raymonda, da ne ispadne samo da svi kopiraju njega, a da on nije nikog!






Ovo levo su ilustracije Johna La Gatte, kog je Raymond kopirao/imitirao pošto je prošao kroz fazu kopiranja Matta Clarka. Desno su kadrovi iz Flaša Gordona.


In Love, if Love be Love, if Love be ours,
Faith and unfaith can ne'er be equal powers

Edited by - ridiculus on 10/10/2021 19:07:20
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