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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 02:54:39
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quote: Originally posted by Kontrast 2
quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
Evo negdje na oko 10 minuta i 10 sekundi
Ne sumnjam da tako piše - nego sumnjam u istinitost te Viline izjave. Možda osnovna izrada traje toliko, ali onda dolazi "peglanje", doterivanje, promena kadrova, promena nekih detalja u kadrovima,...
Zadnji strip mu je od pre 15 godina. Da mu za ilustracije treba dva dana, da crta po tri mesečno (mislim da nema više izdanja)- to je 6 dana. Nek radi 20 dana mesečno - to je još slobodnih 14 dana. Ali, neka ih je samo 10. 10 dana x 1 strana x 12 meseci x 15 godina = 1.800 strana. A on nije uradio ni tih 240 za Gigant.
Vjeruj da nema nikakvih "promjena kadrova" naknadno, kada crtac izjavi da mu toliko i toliko treba za tablu, sve izmjene i sva "peglanja" su ukalkulisani u izjavu. Takodje u poruci sa foruma pise da je "ovog Maja mjeseca" imao 10 naslovnica za uraditi. Post je od prije par godina. Drugo, nije da svo vrijeme, svaki dan mimo rada na naslovnicama, moze 100% iskoristiti za Texone. Od neplanskih desavanja pa dalje...pa da se tako lako izvode racunice. Kontam sta hoces reci, da kako god, ostaje i vise nego dovoljno vremena. I OK. Medjutim, bice da je promaklo, ponavljam, bukvalno nakon 100 i neke table, 5 godina nije "dotakao" Texone, pa je nastavio nedavno...zato ipak ne bih potpisao kalkulacije i statistike poput te koju si uradio. Tipa 10 dana x 1 strana x 12 meseci x 15 godina = 1.800 strana.
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 03:06:31
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quote: Originally posted by Kontrast 2
quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Dok on nacrta tri table, Ferri za to vrijeme uradi Divove dobra i zla.
I to zavidnog kvaliteta. Ali - jedan je Maestro.
Iznenadili bi ste se koliko toga se moze za nekih 8 radnih sati (a Villa koliko znam radi i do 10) uraditi. Takodje po onome sto vidim recimo na snimcima kada crta na festivalima, koliko god su to "naucene Texove face" isl, nije mi bas full nezamislivo da, tom brzinom, makar one table koje i nemaju sta sem Texovih krupnih faca ili slicno, zaista i može uraditi potpuno, za eto, dan i pol. Ja sam vise skeptican na dio upravo oko priprema za sam rad na tabli...osmisljavanje scena, kadriranja isl, reference itd...koliko god dosta toga dodje precizno napisano, ako je ista od faktora izostavljeno u izjavama, onda su prije stvari tog tipa nego strogo crtanje; od olovke - do tuša. |
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Kontrast 2
Senior Member
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2314 Posts
Member since 12/09/2016 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 13:50:33
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quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
Vjeruj da nema nikakvih "promjena kadrova" naknadno, kada crtac izjavi da mu toliko i toliko treba za tablu, sve izmjene i sva "peglanja" su ukalkulisani u izjavu. Takodje u poruci sa foruma pise da je "ovog Maja mjeseca" imao 10 naslovnica za uraditi. Post je od prije par godina. Drugo, nije da svo vrijeme, svaki dan mimo rada na naslovnicama, moze 100% iskoristiti za Texone. Od neplanskih desavanja pa dalje...pa da se tako lako izvode racunice. Kontam sta hoces reci, da kako god, ostaje i vise nego dovoljno vremena. I OK. Medjutim, bice da je promaklo, ponavljam, bukvalno nakon 100 i neke table, 5 godina nije "dotakao" Texone, pa je nastavio nedavno...zato ipak ne bih potpisao kalkulacije i statistike poput te koju si uradio. Tipa 10 dana x 1 strana x 12 meseci x 15 godina = 1.800 strana.
Naravno da kalkulacija ne vredi. Ona samo pokazuje da Vila mnogo vremena provodi ne radeći nikakve crteže, ili - laže za onaj ritam. Nešto se tu ne uklapa. Kao priča o Kinezima: Navodno je u Kini (do sada) bio program "jedno dete". A broj Kineza se povećava svake godine za nekoliko desetina miliona. Pa, onda tu nešto nije u redu. Obzirom da povećanje broja stanovnika daje samo treće dete, onda; 1. nije tačno da postoji program jedno dete; 2. nije tačno da broj Kineza raste; ili, eventualno, treće; 3. Kinezi su besmrtni.
Šta radi Vila? |
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King Warrior
stripovi.com suradnik
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22346 Posts
Member since 10/11/2007 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 13:58:37
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Mefisto baš i nije izgledao kao da se radilo na njemu deset godina. Dobar dio vinjeta je bio "zamaltan" tušem, drugim riječima takve table su odrađene brzinski. |
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Kontrast 2
Senior Member
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2314 Posts
Member since 12/09/2016 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 13:59:57
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quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
Iznenadili bi ste se koliko toga se moze za nekih 8 radnih sati (a Villa koliko znam radi i do 10) uraditi. Takodje po onome sto vidim recimo na snimcima kada crta na festivalima, koliko god su to "naucene Texove face" isl, nije mi bas full nezamislivo da, tom brzinom, makar one table koje i nemaju sta sem Texovih krupnih faca ili slicno, zaista i može uraditi potpuno, za eto, dan i pol. Ja sam vise skeptican na dio upravo oko priprema za sam rad na tabli...osmisljavanje scena, kadriranja isl, reference itd...koliko god dosta toga dodje precizno napisano, ako je ista od faktora izostavljeno u izjavama, onda su prije stvari tog tipa nego strogo crtanje; od olovke - do tuša.
Feri je jedinstven. Ima njegova izjava (iz nekih davnih dana) da je radio i po 120 kaiševa (40 tabli) mesečno. Medjutim, kada ja preračunam vreme izmedju njegovih uzastopnih priča (koje popunjava Donateli, ili i Binjoti) dobija se nekada i do 100 strana. Što deluje nemoguće - ali je matematika takva. Jeste da Feri nije poklanjao previše pažnje detaljima okoline, pa se ne vidi svaka liska (kao kod nekih danas), ali je suština crtanja uvek bila ispoštovana - ako u razgovoru učestvuje 6 ljudi, ide jedan kadar sa jednim, drugi sa par njih, a dugački kadar (ceo kaiš) sa svih 6 učesnika. I sve to jako dobro nacrtano.
Vila je prespor. Ne spor - prespor. Ili, previše lenj. 15 godina je 180 meseci. Da je crtao samo 1,5 tablu mesečno - do sada bi već završio ceo Gigant.
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Kontrast 2
Senior Member
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2314 Posts
Member since 12/09/2016 |
Posted - 10/03/2018 : 14:03:42
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quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Mefisto baš i nije izgledao kao da se radilo na njemu deset godina. Dobar dio vinjeta je bio "zamaltan" tušem, drugim riječima takve table su odrađene brzinski.
Ne sećam se da je bilo toga. Moraću ovih dana, kada budem imao više vremena - da obnovim gradivo. |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 11/03/2018 : 20:37:35
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quote: Originally posted by Kontrast 2
quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Mefisto baš i nije izgledao kao da se radilo na njemu deset godina. Dobar dio vinjeta je bio "zamaltan" tušem, drugim riječima takve table su odrađene brzinski.
Ne sećam se da je bilo toga. Moraću ovih dana, kada budem imao više vremena - da obnovim gradivo.
I tu ćemo doci do toga da, kada se malo bolje izanaliziraju table (ne samo Mefisto već i prethodne epizode) zapravo na njima i nema bas tolika kolicina posla nemoguca za zavrsiti za dan cca.
Dodajmo na to iskustvo koje ima...zasto bi bas bas toliko odudarao od prosjeka kada znamo da ima crtaca koji rade i 4 table dnevno (Roi, Freghieri) možemo njih analizirati pa vidjeti da ni njihove table nisu bas sfuserene.
Rekao bih da, Villa prosto ima takav stil/crtež, koji djeluje kompleksno, se cini da nuzno to "mora i da traje". Nisam 100% siguran. |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 11/03/2018 : 20:45:01
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quote: Originally posted by Kontrast 2 Da je crtao samo 1,5 tablu mesečno - do sada bi već završio ceo Gigant.
Ne da nije crtao 1,5 mjesecno, vec, evo ponovit cu treci put, lijepo covjek kaze da u 5 punih godina nije nasao ni 1 dan slobodan da radi Gigant. A to je samo jedna ta veca pauza "za koju znamo". Niti to znaci da mimo te pauze, je svo preostalo vrijeme imao samo, i putpuno za Gigant. Mozemo samo nagadjati, ali ocito je imao malo do nikako slobodnih dana u svih ovih sada famoznih 15godina. Tj, evo, ako znamo da je nekako uspio prebaciti preko 100 tabli, i ako mu vjerujemo da za jednu treba dan i pol, mozemo doci do broja dana koji jesu otisli na Gigant u ovih 15godina. Čisto sumnjam da je broj dana slobodnih za Gigant bio veci ali da su potroseni badava. |
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solar
Moderator
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Croatia
21432 Posts
Member since 16/03/2004 |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 12/03/2018 : 11:04:58
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quote: Originally posted by solar Ukratko, nije problem njegova sporost nego nedostatak volje i motiva, ponavljam to je Boselli javno preko foruma govorio.
To je vec zanimljivo, imas li link do tog foruma? |
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Deers
Advanced Member
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Croatia
9482 Posts
Member since 29/03/2004 |
Posted - 12/03/2018 : 12:25:32
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Boss griješi. Villa cijelo vrijeme gleda u tog Texa tako da je razumljivo da mu je puna kapa toga i da se sve teže koncentrira i nalazi motivaciju. U tom pogledu je bio Rrobe bio u pravu kad je rekao da ako netko želi crtati Texa neka ide crtati Texa, nema smisla nekog prisilno držati na nekom serijalu.
Villa s druge strane i također griješi, barem malo. Da je nacrtao taj Gigant sad bi mogao crtati one autorske albume. A njih mu Boselli neće dati dok ne završi započeto. |
"Trzaj mišica i nad prazninom sam." |
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solar
Moderator
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Croatia
21432 Posts
Member since 16/03/2004 |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 13/03/2018 : 23:50:44
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quote: Originally posted by solar
quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
quote: Originally posted by solar Ukratko, nije problem njegova sporost nego nedostatak volje i motiva, ponavljam to je Boselli javno preko foruma govorio.
To je vec zanimljivo, imas li link do tog foruma?
Bosellijev nick je "borden": http://texwiller.ch/index.php?/topic/4442-il-texone-eagle-pass-di-claudio-villa/&
Super hvala. Jako zanimljivo, pogotovo post na drugoj strani. Kako god, definitivno ispada da sama "brzina po tabli" nije svakako u pitanju no i ja sada zaista stičem dojam da tu ima nešto više od zauzetosti, je li moguće da je izgubio "drive" generalno, da mu je fakat Tex pomalo dosadio generalno?   |
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solar
Moderator
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Croatia
21432 Posts
Member since 16/03/2004 |
Posted - 13/03/2018 : 23:53:50
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Bilo je još par komentara na ostalim temama ali glavnina je u tom postu na drugoj stranici. U međuvremenu Boselli je s Villom očigledno nekoliko puta razgovarao o tom Teksoneu tako da se ovaj pomaknuo s mrtve točke. |
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going going
Advanced Member
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Serbia
11927 Posts
Member since 24/04/2012 |
Posted - 14/03/2018 : 01:53:32
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Nek daju Villi da nacrta jednog Zagora, mozda mu bude prijala zanrovska promena. Ili nek ga Rekijoni ponovo vrati na Dilana za neku epizodu Kolorfesta ili tako necega. |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 14/03/2018 : 11:54:02
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"in 2007 it took only two or three months to draw 46 pages of the history of Daredevil and Captain America" - ako mi je racunica dobra i iz ovoga se vidi da moze za do dva dana max uraditi tablu. Čak i brze ali ne znamo tacno jesu li 2 ili 3 mjeseca ili koliko tačno vremena izmedju u pitanju, no brzina oscilira od dan do dva. Ne prelazi duže 2 kako god. |
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Kontrast 2
Senior Member
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2314 Posts
Member since 12/09/2016 |
Posted - 16/03/2018 : 00:09:36
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quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
I tu ćemo doci do toga da, kada se malo bolje izanaliziraju table (ne samo Mefisto već i prethodne epizode) zapravo na njima i nema bas tolika kolicina posla nemoguca za zavrsiti za dan cca.
Dodajmo na to iskustvo koje ima...zasto bi bas bas toliko odudarao od prosjeka kada znamo da ima crtaca koji rade i 4 table dnevno (Roi, Freghieri) možemo njih analizirati pa vidjeti da ni njihove table nisu bas sfuserene.
Rekao bih da, Villa prosto ima takav stil/crtež, koji djeluje kompleksno, se cini da nuzno to "mora i da traje". Nisam 100% siguran.
Dobro, koliko tebi treba za jednu tablu? (pre izvesnog vremena si postavio jednu Teksovu, ako se ne varam, ili je bila i jedna Zagorova?) |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 16/03/2018 : 20:33:38
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quote: Originally posted by Kontrast 2
Dobro, koliko tebi treba za jednu tablu? (pre izvesnog vremena si postavio jednu Teksovu, ako se ne varam, ili je bila i jedna Zagorova?)
Maksimalno 3 dana za Texa zbog detalja, tako i za Zagora ili Dylana, ali sam neke nove Dampyr table uspio i za dan uraditi, eventualno dva dana (koje ne mogu postaviti ) Pod "dan" mislim na 8 do 10 radnih sati. Dakle oscilira u tim okvirovima.
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Edited by - MisterYES on 16/03/2018 20:51:21 |
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mpavin
Advanced Member
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Niue
7871 Posts
Member since 02/09/2005 |
Posted - 16/03/2018 : 21:30:49
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Ovo je bolje od nekih crtača koji su tamo u staffu... Ne znan jesi li proba nešto s bonellijem, možda bi ti dali šansu... |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 16/03/2018 : 22:02:04
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quote: Originally posted by mpavin
Ovo je bolje od nekih crtača koji su tamo u staffu... Ne znan jesi li proba nešto s bonellijem, možda bi ti dali šansu...
Bježi nam topic 😬...😳
Jesam. Pricao sa Burattinijem 3x, zadnji put u Mostaru u Dec. prošle god. Gledao mi portfolio. Naprosto nema mjesta ni u Zagor ni Tex stafu tako da ne mislim više na njih trošiti papir. Ali ima u jednom trećem i trenutno sam u fazi "pregovora, rada probnih tabli, razmjene emailova, uvezivanja sa tim urednicima itd" ...nisu mi loši izgledi uopšte, ali ne volim da prejudiciram pa...
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Kontrast 2
Senior Member
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2314 Posts
Member since 12/09/2016 |
Posted - 17/03/2018 : 14:06:19
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quote: Originally posted by MisterYES
Maksimalno 3 dana za Texa zbog detalja, tako i za Zagora ili Dylana, ali sam neke nove Dampyr table uspio i za dan uraditi, eventualno dva dana (koje ne mogu postaviti ) Pod "dan" mislim na 8 do 10 radnih sati. Dakle oscilira u tim okvirovima.
Pa dobro - to je i neki prosek. Godišnje se uradi jedna sveska - 100-tinak strana. 150 - ako se radi samo taj strip.
Ove table uopšte nisu loše. Problem je kad se postavi samo jedna ili dve, pa onda svi krenu da traže dlaku u jajetu ( i naravno - uvek je i nadju). Kada bi ih neko video u okviru stripa od 200-300 strana, svi bi rekli da si jako dobar crtač. Ćinjenica je da Teksovih crtača ima i previše, a i kod Zagora takodje (samo što je kod njega previše osrednjih), ali to ne znači da ne treba ustrajavati. Pogledaj Baneta - počeo je da crta Zagora tek u šezdesetim. (htedoh reći - ušao je u Boneli tek u šezdesetim) |
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MisterYES
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
559 Posts
Member since 01/10/2003 |
Posted - 17/03/2018 : 23:08:46
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Ako je suditi po nekim statusima i infou da je Villa rasterecen nalslovnica za seriju koju je preuzeo Dotti, izgleda da je krenuo da dovrsi Gigant napokon i zaozbiljno, pa kada god...
Nadam se da nece biti prevelike oscilacije u crtežu starih i novih tabli. |
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PijaniPatak
stripovi.com suradnik
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Germany
10035 Posts
Member since 20/02/2010 |
Posted - 22/03/2018 : 20:27:59
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Jutros pročitao Patagoniju Gigant među stripovima, prelepo nešto, jeza i emocija od glave do pete nepretenciozni udarac šakom u bubrege Očekivao fantastično nacrtan western, a dobio izvanrednu (gorko realističnu) epopeju i još fantanstično nacrtanu.
Prvi Tex koji sam pročitao sa velikim guštom i definitivno najbolji koji sam ikada otvorio (a pale su ranije i Karsonova prošlost i Zakletva) |
DNEVNIK CITANJA: Etika junaštva i deklišeizirani koreni u “Zagor prica...”
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Kojot
Advanced Member
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Switzerland
4121 Posts
Member since 21/12/2008 |
Posted - 22/03/2018 : 21:45:34
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quote: Originally posted by PijaniPatak
Jutros pročitao Patagoniju Gigant među stripovima, prelepo nešto, jeza i emocija od glave do pete nepretenciozni udarac šakom u bubrege Očekivao fantastično nacrtan western, a dobio izvanrednu (gorko realističnu) epopeju i još fantanstično nacrtanu.
Prvi Tex koji sam pročitao sa velikim guštom i definitivno najbolji koji sam ikada otvorio (a pale su ranije i Karsonova prošlost i Zakletva)
Cuj najbolji. Meni nije ni u top 10. |
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PijaniPatak
stripovi.com suradnik
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Germany
10035 Posts
Member since 20/02/2010 |
Posted - 23/03/2018 : 08:11:21
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Nisam baš spreman da ispratim 70 godina serijala da mogu da ti puknem repliku na to  Izvukao sam neki best of na osnovu italijanskih i naših (ocene na recenzijama) lista pa ću vremenom možda da se prosvetlim  Za sad ostaje da me Karsonova prošlost i Zakletva nisu dotakle 
edit: najbolji Texone svakako (a pročitao sam i odličnog Andreccijevog) |
DNEVNIK CITANJA: Etika junaštva i deklišeizirani koreni u “Zagor prica...”
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Edited by - PijaniPatak on 23/03/2018 08:12:48 |
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