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markotamara
Senior Member
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Croatia
2783 Posts
Member since 26/05/2013 |
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nagor
Advanced Member
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Croatia
12553 Posts
Member since 21/02/2012 |
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nagor
Advanced Member
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Croatia
12553 Posts
Member since 21/02/2012 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 11:45:44
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quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Obozavam i ja E.A.Poea, ali onaj James Bond Poe iz Hellingena mi uopste nije legao. Uloga koja ne pase ovom liku.
Ma nije stvar u Poe-u. Fora je u dugačkom uvodu. Ako je više od deset stranica uvoda, a nema uopće Zagora na tim stranicama, znaš da će bit nešto.
Zar nije slično počeo i ovaj novi Bosellijev Cain (uvod u JA sagu), koji nas sad uskoro čeka... 20ak stranica čistog uvoda (listao sam talijanski scan)... i bomba od priče - navodno, jer nisam još čitao, ali uopće ne sumnjam u patkovu recenziju.
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King Warrior
stripovi.com suradnik
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22339 Posts
Member since 10/11/2007 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 11:57:47
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quote: Originally posted by aved
Ovdje ce uvijek biti problem starih ( Nolitta/Toninelli period ) i novih ( Burattini/Boselli ) postovaoca Zagorovih prica. U prvih 300 epizoda smo imali dosta naucne fantastike- od robota, monitora, balistickih raketa, svemirskih brodova, vanzemaljaca pa sve do raznoraznih izuma profesora Verybada, a isto tako magije, drugih svjetova i sl. Sa dosta boljom nadogradnjom isto sve ovo imamo i u drugom dijelu Zagorovih 300 epizoda, tako da ne vidim u cemu je toliki problem. Nagor je fino objasnio.
Ako cemo prizeljkivati Zagorove price gdje ce se samo baviti problemom na relaciji indijanci-ranceri-vojska-krijumcari i sl. onda se unistava sama postavka Zagora kao mjesavinu svih zanrova. Gubitkom te raznovrsnosti se gubi i njegova najveca vrijednost, kao sto Jasa rece. Ako cemo takvog Zagora onda to nece biti Zagor vec Tex u crvenoj kosulji sa orlom na prsima.
Svidjalo se nekome ili ne, ali Zagor je kroz price kao sto su Tajna Anasaza, Osveta vudu, Nulta godina Darkwooda, Carstvo Songhaya, Morska strava itd., dobio jedan cvrst stub u svom serijalu. Dobio je ime, porijeklo i daleko vecu ozbiljnost i znacaj koja mu je citavo vrijeme falila kroz serijal.
Ubacivanje Baze Drugdje i sage u vezi Atlantide meni odlicno odgovara jer su fino uklopili i razradili pricu. Samo se nadam da se ne ode predaleko pa da se sve to zapetlja i da se na kraju ne zna ko pije a ko placa. Tako da se nadam da ce se prica u vezi Atlantide i Zagorovog porijekla zavrsiti u JA sagi ili nekad nakon toga, ali uglavnom da se zavrsi.
Baza Drugdje se uvijek moze iskoristiti za bilo koje paranormalne i neobicne slucajeve/pojave pa samim tim povecati kvalitet. Morska strava je fin primjer iako su se samo kratko pojavili, ali su ostavili svoj znacaj i takva jedna postavka moze uvijek posluziti za razradu neke druge price. Od magije, kultova, ukletog indijanskog groblja i sl., tema je na izvoz, tako da se ne mora striktno vezati za tehnologiju.
Btw- Ne bi me iznenadilo da se Raven i Drugdje pojave u novom Hellingenu. Uglavnom, budu li prisutni ili ne Burattini ce da preprica "Sjene nad Darkwoodom" 
Ne vidim da niko spominje da hoce Zagora kao klasicnog western junaka ala Tex.  Ko voli Zagora, on ga je prihvatio kao svestranog. Ko voli klasicne western avanture, taj cita Texa. Kazem jer vidim da je nekoliko njih stavilo u isti kontekst old school fanove i klasicni western , sto je pogresno.
U sustini sam si i odgovorio na svoje pitanje u dijelu gdje si napisao da se bojis da ne odu predaleko. Prvih naznaka vec ima, vec je bilo rijeci o tome da je Zagor porijeklom sa Atlantide. Nepotrebno, sta fali tome da ostane Irac i koliko toliko prizemljen?! Mogli bi od njega napraviti i Marsovca, odlike junaka bi ostale iste, ali to je jednostavno nepotrebno. |
Edited by - King Warrior on 29/04/2014 11:59:06 |
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dcopic
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
6221 Posts
Member since 20/01/2005 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 17:37:53
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Meni je skroz u redu da se u Zagorov serijal ubacuje Baza Drugdje i Atlantida. Do sada su te epizode stvarno bile odlične, puno bolje nego kada Zagor lovi nekakve kriminalce i sl. Samo ne treba pretjerivati, ta pojavljivanja trebaju biti povremeno, uostalom kako je bilo i do sada. A Zagor neka nam ostane Irac! |
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aved
Average Member
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
633 Posts
Member since 25/12/2012 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 18:46:34
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King, nisam iznio svoje misljenje samo na osnovu ovog topika i foruma vec i na osnovu ostalih. Da se lagano u postovima procitati, a u nekim i primijetiti, da se nekima ne svidja "novi" Zagor i sva ta baratanja sa naucno-fantasticnim pricama i sl., i da zele samo Zagora u Darkwoodu sa epizodama na relaciji vladavina mira-indijanci-vojska, lova na jelene, zeceve i sl. Isto tako im je preko glave njegovog putovanja. Apsolutno se slazem da to treba, ali se nikako ne slazem da se samo treba striktno toga drzati jer gubimo citav taj raznoliki svijet u kojem je Zagor kreiran i koji je iznjedrio toliko dobrih prica, kao sto se ne slazem da bude samo n. fantastika, znaci svega pomalo bez pretjerivanja. Stvar ukusa da li neko voli/mrzi naucnu fantastiku/western i sl. Zato kazem ako neko hoce samo western onda ima Tex. Da Zagor bude zastupljen samo sa jednim zanrom, nebitno kojim, onda to nije Zagor. Zato su potrebne svjeze i nove stvari.
Upravo zato dolazimo do Baze Drugdje gdje ne vidim razloga zasto ne bi bila prisutna u Zagorovom svijetu. Pogresno je vezati Drugdje samo za napredna oruzja iz proslosti/buducnosti i nema nikakve potrebe da se veze za Martija. Takva jedna organizacija kod Zagora moze imati svoje mjesto mimo svega nabrojanog jer ima svoje odjele za paranormalne slucajeve, magiju, kultove itd. koji su se ubili za neku pricu u cijelom tom sarenom svijetu Zagora.
Sto se tice straha da se prica u vezi Atlantide iskomplikuje ona ce uvijek biti dok ne vidimo kako ce se to rijesiti. Da nije bila Atlantida bilo bi nesto drugo jer nesto mora da odrzaje seriju i da ima tu svoju sponu koja se proteze kroz sve to. Atlantida se pokazala kao super stvar.
Kod vecine Zagorovih fanova je duboko usadjen korijen straha i sumnje prema svemu sto je novo, priznali ili ne. Kao zelimo neke promjene, a u isto vrijeme zelimo da robujemo starim navikama. |
Mornie utúlië, mornie alantië |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 19:59:59
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quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Protiv samo toga da se Zagor na bilo koji nacin povezuje sa Martijem, ukljucujuci i Atlantidu i Drugdje.
King, king, htio ti ili ne, Martinov univerzum je povezan sa zagorovim čim se Boselli uključio u igru... Martin čak pronalazi litografiju Chica i vikinga Guthruma tijekom njihove ekspedicije:
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Službeno iz Priča iz baze Drugdje: Od 1837 nadalje: Edgar Allan Poeov rad kao agent Drugdje (pod pseudonimom agent Raven) i zajedno sa zagorom spriječio povratak ludog Hellingena, koji se privremeno udružio s Wendigom. U tom razdoblju baza u Monticello bila je napuštena i gradi se veća baza Drugdje. Sjedište je privremeno smješteno u muzej of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia, koje služi kao kaver za spremište dragocjenih artefakata koje baza proučava. Vodi je Mr. Roberts i jedna od glavnih agenata je Agent Jesse.
Baza Drugdje postoji i u jednom i drugom svijetu, Atlantida i Mu, sve su to sastojci zajedničkog univerzuma. |
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies; the man who never reads lives only one." |
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solar
Moderator
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Croatia
21432 Posts
Member since 16/03/2004 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 20:06:58
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quote: Originally posted by nagor
quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Obozavam i ja E.A.Poea, ali onaj James Bond Poe iz Hellingena mi uopste nije legao. Uloga koja ne pase ovom liku.
Ma nije stvar u Poe-u. Fora je u dugačkom uvodu. Ako je više od deset stranica uvoda, a nema uopće Zagora na tim stranicama, znaš da će bit nešto.
Zar nije slično počeo i ovaj novi Bosellijev Cain (uvod u JA sagu), koji nas sad uskoro čeka... 20ak stranica čistog uvoda (listao sam talijanski scan)... i bomba od priče - navodno, jer nisam još čitao, ali uopće ne sumnjam u patkovu recenziju.
Priča je odlična, uz Čovjeka koji je pobijedio smrt najbolja u zadnjih deset godina. |
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senokute
Senior Member
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Germany
1367 Posts
Member since 08/01/2011 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 20:35:04
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baza drugdje prijeti da sjebe ravnotezu koja vlada , ili bilje receno je vladala 50 godina u serijalu, i ako nastave sa kenjanjem, stvorice zagora koji ce biti samo sjena samog sebe, te scenariste bi ja prebacio u neku "bazu drugdje". |
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emirem
Advanced Member
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10824 Posts
Member since 18/01/2010 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 21:00:28
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Ne vjerujem u slucajnosti, evo bas danas uz neke knjige dobio i zbirku prica Poea...
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"Kompromisi u kolekcionarstvu su one stvari koje ce ti omoguciti da dozivis starost sa pozamasnom ustedjevinom!" |
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Timber Bil
Senior Member
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1068 Posts
Member since 02/10/2013 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 21:18:51
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quote: Originally posted by senokute
baza drugdje prijeti da sjebe ravnotezu koja vlada , ili bilje receno je vladala 50 godina u serijalu, i ako nastave sa kenjanjem, stvorice zagora koji ce biti samo sjena samog sebe, te scenariste bi ja prebacio u neku "bazu drugdje".
Neće to sjebati serijal, može ga samo podići na viši nivo, čista 10-ka za pojavljivanje agenta Ravena, jedan od naj likova Zagor serijala, nadam se da se vraća u sedmom povratku Helingena, ne verujem da će proći bez njega.  |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 21:32:23
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Ma nemoj to pričati Timber, samo provociraš Kinga... Ja isto vjerujem da će Raven biti tamo. |
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies; the man who never reads lives only one." |
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Timber Bil
Senior Member
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1068 Posts
Member since 02/10/2013 |
Posted - 29/04/2014 : 23:10:03
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quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
Ma nemoj to pričati Timber, samo provociraš Kinga... Ja isto vjerujem da će Raven biti tamo.
Mora biti tamo, Raven je oklik, zanimljiv, samo sa njim sedmi Helingen će biti epska priča. Drago mi je što Zagorov serijal uspešno evoluira u odnosu na dosadnjikavi Toninelijev period. |
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King Warrior
stripovi.com suradnik
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22339 Posts
Member since 10/11/2007 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 09:01:55
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quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Protiv samo toga da se Zagor na bilo koji nacin povezuje sa Martijem, ukljucujuci i Atlantidu i Drugdje.
King, king, htio ti ili ne, Martinov univerzum je povezan sa zagorovim čim se Boselli uključio u igru... Martin čak pronalazi litografiju Chica i vikinga Guthruma tijekom njihove ekspedicije:
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Službeno iz Priča iz baze Drugdje: Od 1837 nadalje: Edgar Allan Poeov rad kao agent Drugdje (pod pseudonimom agent Raven) i zajedno sa zagorom spriječio povratak ludog Hellingena, koji se privremeno udružio s Wendigom. U tom razdoblju baza u Monticello bila je napuštena i gradi se veća baza Drugdje. Sjedište je privremeno smješteno u muzej of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia, koje služi kao kaver za spremište dragocjenih artefakata koje baza proučava. Vodi je Mr. Roberts i jedna od glavnih agenata je Agent Jesse.
Smakao sam s uma tu vinjetu, ali isto tako i autori MM kada su odlucili da uvedu Za-Te-Neya u MM univerzum. Bolje da se odluce za jedan pravac i drze toga, a ne jednom ovako, jednom onako.
quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
Ja isto vjerujem da će Raven biti tamo.
Moguce, a s obzirom koliko je Poe superioran u Zagorovim avanturama, nece mu ni biti potrebna pomoc naseg junaka da bi savladao Hellingena. |
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Antracit
Average Member
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Croatia
509 Posts
Member since 09/08/2002 |
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King Warrior
stripovi.com suradnik
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22339 Posts
Member since 10/11/2007 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 10:29:13
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quote: Originally posted by Antracit
Hellingen se (opet) vraća?
Pa zadnji nastup je imao 1997. godine. Samo sto nasi izdavaci stalno vrte njegove stare price, pa djeluje kao da su neke epizode juce bile.  |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 10:54:30
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quote: Originally posted by Antracit
Hellingen se (opet) vraća?
da, to je službeno, Helli ga čeka kad se vrati u svoj voljeni Darkwood iz Južne Amerike, kao i mnogo puta prije toga... Bure priča da je u pitanju 600-ti broj ili tu negdje. |
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies; the man who never reads lives only one." |
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Rahazlam
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3404 Posts
Member since 13/07/2013 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 11:07:00
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quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
quote: Originally posted by Antracit
Hellingen se (opet) vraća?
da, to je službeno, Helli ga čeka kad se vrati u svoj voljeni Darkwood iz Južne Amerike, kao i mnogo puta prije toga... Bure priča da je u pitanju 600-ti broj ili tu negdje.
Kako covijek jos nije skonto da najebe svaki put kad se ide zajebavat sa zagijem |
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DODSFERD
Advanced Member
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Pitcairn Island
29953 Posts
Member since 14/03/2014 |
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emirem
Advanced Member
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10824 Posts
Member since 18/01/2010 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 21:44:49
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quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
quote: Originally posted by Antracit
Hellingen se (opet) vraća?
Helli ga čeka kad se vrati u svoj voljeni Darkwood iz Južne Amerike, kao i mnogo puta prije toga...
To me podsjeca na ljude koji su se vracali sa ljetovanja i zaboravili zavrnuti ventil od vesmasine pa nastala poplava ili iskljucili skrinju sa mesom pa se sve usmrdilo..tak i Zagor malo ode iz dvorista odmah frka na povratku...  |
"Kompromisi u kolekcionarstvu su one stvari koje ce ti omoguciti da dozivis starost sa pozamasnom ustedjevinom!" |
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DODSFERD
Advanced Member
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Pitcairn Island
29953 Posts
Member since 14/03/2014 |
Posted - 30/04/2014 : 22:11:19
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quote: Originally posted by emirem
quote: Originally posted by DeeCay
quote: Originally posted by Antracit
Hellingen se (opet) vraća?
Helli ga čeka kad se vrati u svoj voljeni Darkwood iz Južne Amerike, kao i mnogo puta prije toga...
To me podsjeca na ljude koji su se vracali sa ljetovanja i zaboravili zavrnuti ventil od vesmasine pa nastala poplava ili iskljucili skrinju sa mesom pa se sve usmrdilo.. 
Ovo se ne može dogoditi za vrijeme odsustva Zagora tako da su Chicove zalihe u smočnici sigurne. 
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Sinaitakala Tu'imatamoana 'i Fanakavakilangi Fakafanua |
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emirem
Advanced Member
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10824 Posts
Member since 18/01/2010 |
Posted - 01/05/2014 : 11:02:50
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quote: Originally posted by DODSFERD
Ovo se ne može dogoditi za vrijeme odsustva Zagora tako da su Chicove zalihe u smočnici sigurne. 
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"Kompromisi u kolekcionarstvu su one stvari koje ce ti omoguciti da dozivis starost sa pozamasnom ustedjevinom!" |
Edited by - emirem on 01/05/2014 11:04:44 |
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