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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
 Posted - 10/06/2007 : 17:31:47
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Only for Djole's eyes;)
Beretta's Confession:
E' da ormai qualche tempo che i lettori che incontro alle fiere, alle cene
dell'associazione degli Amici di Martin Mystere o che mi scrivono via mail
mi rivolgono due domande: cosa sta succedendo a Oltremare? E perche' da
qualche tempo non appaiono piu' mie storie su Martin Mystere (o su altre
testate della Bonelli)? Per tutta una serie di ragioni fino a oggi non avevo
potuto dare una risposta a queste domande; ora che alcuni problemi si sono
dipanati posso farlo, come mi sembra corretto, e comincero' da "Oltremare".
1) "Oltremare". L'anno scorso, all'edizione 2003 di Lucca Comics, stendemmo
con l'Albin-Michel e con il nostro editore italiano, Alessandro, un piano
di massima per la pubblicazione del terzo volume. L'idea era di uscire per
l'edizione 2004 di Lucca in Italia, e per Angoluleme 2005 in Francia, non
solo con il terzo libro, ma, in contemporanea, con il cofanetto che
racchiudeva i tre volumi, con la possibilita' di realizzare una co-edizione
insieme a Alessandro e all'Albin. Questo progetto parve soddisfare tutti, e
il sottoscritto torno' a Milano per mettersi al lavoro sul nuovo libro.
Uno dei punti che avevamo voluto chiarire con l'Albin era che io e Giancarlo
avremmo desiderato avere un maggiore controllo grafico anche sull'edizione
francese, che, onestamente, non ci aveva soddisfatto. Questa richiesta venne
accolta senza alcun problema dall'editore di Parigi, e Elisabeth Haroche, il
nostro referente presso l'Albin, promise che ci avrebbe inviato una versione
corretta del contratto in cui la nostra approvazione della veste grafica e
della stampa diveniva vincolante anche in termini formali (Elisabeth era
rimasta genuinamente stupita dall'edizione fatta da noi per l'Italia).
Risolti, senza incidenti o discussioni, questi problemi, posso dire che
tutti tornammo a casa felici di poter completare l'opera nel modo migliore.
Ma quando si tratto di firmare materialemnte il nuovo contratto per il terzo
volume, Alessandrini si rifiuto'. Le ragioni, che egli espresse in una
lettera scritta a Elisabeth, erano una generale insoddisfazione per come si
erano svolti i contatti di lavoro, per la scarsa cura che il libro aveva
avuto nell'edizione francese e altri problemi (da lui descritti in
un'intervista sul numero primaverile di "Scuola di Fumetto"). Problemi che,
con rammarico, gli avevano fatto prendere la decisione di interrompere la
sua collaborazione su "Oltremare".
Questo fatto spiazzo' un po' tutti: esso non avvenne a Lucca, ma mesi dopo,
quando tutti avevamo dato per scontato lo svolgersi del piano di lavoro
concordato. La prima cosa che l'Albin disse fu che avrebbe comunque voluto
completare l'opera, purche' vi fosse la possibilita' di affidarla nuovo
artista che, per stile e qualita', potesse degnamente sostituire
Alessandrini. Di fatto, questa situazione imprevista lascio' pochissimo
tempo per cercare un nuovo disegnatore in tempo per Lucca e Angouleme.
Furono fatte diverse prove, ma nessuna soddisfo' responsabili dell'Albin. A
questo punto "Oltremare", a un libro dalla conclusione, e' entrato nel
limbo.
Ci sono sono due piccole scintille di speranza per il futuro: la prima e'
che io *ho* firmato il contratto per realizzare il terzo volume, e questo,
per quanto riguarda la mia parte, e' vincolante: se l'Albin me lo chiedesse
dovro' scriverlo. La seconda e' che l'editore francese non si e' avvalso
della possiblita' contrattuale di chiudere il progetto liberando tutti dai
loro impegni. Cio' significa che, sia pure a livello teorico, "Oltremare" e'
in attesa di un disegnatore che possa completarlo. All'Albin e a me l'idea
piace ancora, io ovviamente desidero finirlo, chi vivra' vedra'.
* * *
2) Martin Mystere: poco tempo dopo la conclusione del mio lavoro sulla prima
meta' del gigante " La Citta' dei Maghi", mi presi un momento di pausa. Non
per ragioni di stanchezza creativa o altro, ma perche' l'esperienza francese
mi aveva aperto nuovi e interessanti nuovi modi di avvicinarmi a un progetto
creativo, modi che non vedevo l'ora di applicare a una testata Bonelli.
Cosi' raccolsi materiale per tre storie "regolari" del BVZM (la vecchia idea
ispirata a "Blair Witch Project", il cross-over un po' techno-thriller con
Magic Patrol e la nuova avventura a Faeire, seguito morale del "Libro di
Kells") e iniziai a lavorarci con un "respiro" piu' ampio rispetto alla
media (ricerca della documentazione, preparazione della struttura narrariva
ecc..) La notizia del passaggio alla bimestralita' fu accolta, almeno da me,
con la gioia piu' grande, in quanto l'idea di pubblicare un'avventura ben
ricercata, ben curata, con i ritmi quasi di un libro, e magari una parte
divulgativa alla fine coincideva proprio con il "nuovo modo" con cui
desideravo affrontare le storie di Martin.
Tra il vecchio e il nuovo Martin venne deciso redazionalmente che ci sarebbe
stato, come e' naturale, un periodo di transizione editoriale, e dalla
redazione mi venne chiesto di interrompere il lavoro sulle storie che stavo
scrivendo finche' la forma editoriale legata alla nuova cadenza bimestrale
(formato, numero delle pagine, eventuali editoriali) non fosse stata
definita con chiarezza. La cosa mi parve logica, cosi', prima dell'estate,
il mio lavoro su MM si fermo' - apparentemente solo per qualche tempo.
Ovviamente questa interruzione dei lavori non poteva durare in eterno, dal
momento che rappresentava per me un impegno "congelato": non potevo
produrre, e non potevo altri impegni a lungo termine perche' potenzialmente
in ogni momento avrei dovuto ricominciare il mio lavoro su Martin
completando le storie iniziate. Quando pero' vidi che l'attesa si stava
prolungando, chiesi di parlare con il signor Canzio, che e' il Direttore
Editoriale della Bonelli, esprimendogli sostanzialmente la mia necessita' di
avere dei tempi e delle priorita' per poter pianificare i miei lavori
autunnali.
E qui, con una certa sorpresa mia, il signor Canzio mi informo' del fatto
che, per ordine dell'Editore, a partire dalla Bimestralita' *NESSUNO* che
non facesse parte della redazione interna di Martin Mystere avrebbe piu'
potuto "fino a nuovo ordine" scrivere per il BVZM. Questo ovviamente
includeva anche me, e che per tale ragione le mie storie avviate (e
regolarmente pagate fino al punto in cui le avevo consegnate) sarebbero
rimaste incomplete e sospese a tempo indeterminato.
Non spetta ovviamente a me discutere la politica dell'Editore (e una
clausola specifica del contratto di lavoro permette alla casa editrice di
sospendere qualunque storia in qualsiasi momento); ma, avendo liberato
questa sua decisione una parte del mio lavoro quotidiano, chiesi a Canzio se
le pagine che normalmente potevo garantire per Martin Mystere avrebbero
potuto a quel punto essere utili per qualche altra testata della Bonelli.
Purtroppo la risposta fu no: l'attuale situazione interna della Casa
Editrice, e del mercato in generale, in base a quanto mi ha detto Canzio,
non sta piu' concedendo spazi liberi agli sceneggiatori che dovessero
trovarsi senza lavoro.
Cosi', a tutti gli effetti non sto piu' lavorando per la Bonelli, e non mi
e' possibile prevedere quando (o se) potro' un giorno tornale a lavorare per
la casa di Via Buonarroti. Ho confermato a Canzio che, dovesse esserci una
possibilita', non mi dispiacerebbe tornare a un lavoro che, in fondo, mi e'
sempre piaciuto molto fare. Questa pero' e' una decisione che dipendera' non
da me, ma dalla casa editrice e dagli imponderabili eventi che ci aspettano.
E questo e' quanto. Spero di avere chiarito i dubbi e le perplessita' di chi
mi ha contattato di recente! Se ci saranno novita' positive, prometto che
sarete i primi a essere informati!
Saluti!
Vince
:-)
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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tantus
Senior Member
Slovenia
1651 Posts
Member since 10/09/2003 |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 08:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka
Only for Djole's eyes;)
Beretta's Confession...
Ne mogu da verujem kako su ga otkačili po kratkom postupku...
grupa za scanlation: groups.google.com/group/bdskenovi |
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik
Serbia
11876 Posts
Member since 03/11/2002 |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 08:57:32
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Damn, što ovo nisam video pre Makarske da pripitam Castellija za junačko zdravlje... mislim, otkačili Berettu, a Vietti i dalje piše... Šta god mislili o njegovim temama, Beretta je tu najbolji scenarista posle BVZA (pa onda Russo, pa Recagno, pa svi ostali, pa Vietti) po pitanju čiste strukture priča, karakterizacije i dijaloga.
Džukci.
--
"Heiliger $*#@!!! Eine saugroße Miezekatze läuft loss in der Strasse!!" |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 15:57:52
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Jedan manje, zapravo dva (Ruso je drugi).
Jos da puste niz vodu Henrija i Vijetija, i meni puna kapa.
Bar mi onaj smrad od Berete nece praviti vise rupe po kontinuitetu i traziti vanzemaljce tamo gde ih nema...
Da parafrziram sebe na jednom ital. forumu kada sam video ovaj post: danas mi je divan dan, divan dan...:-))))
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik
Serbia
11876 Posts
Member since 03/11/2002 |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 16:39:48
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Meh, Plejađani su malo dete po pitanju rupa u kontinuitetu u odnosu na Sudbinu Atlantide...
--
"Heiliger $*#@!!! Eine saugroße Miezekatze läuft loss in der Strasse!!" |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 17:52:31
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Rupu u kontinuitetu koju je Kasteli samo prosirio, a istu je napravio ranije Bereta.
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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tantus
Senior Member
Slovenia
1651 Posts
Member since 10/09/2003 |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 14/06/2007 : 23:52:50
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KOji su ovo naslovi? Marti ide u Agarti, a u specu magiche spade... Interesantan je ovaj Recagno!
Ja se znam, al nesmem nikaj reci, jooj...
supermark je ultramega simpa kompa i svaka koka bi ga htjela za jebaca ;)
HC! je zakon, živijo HC!
Žene vicu, Dee, tebe seksi trebam... Ajoooj! |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 02/07/2007 : 20:37:47
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Svaka cast Moralesu za Ameliju Erhart. Procitao sam pricu u jednom dahu i sve bi bilo savrseno da nije Moralesovog s vremena na vreme neujednacenog crteza. Ipak, kapa dole za ovo delce.
Sutra taman da smazem i Emotikon...
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 15:03:42
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Ovo nešto jako liči na Da vincijev kod...
Martin Mystčre n. 291
Il codice Caravaggio
Alfredo Castelli/Daniele Caluri
http://www.sergiobonellieditore.it/auto/edicola?collana=71&collocazione=1
Ovaj "sole nero" izgleda jako interesantna epizoda, nacisti, leys, agharti. Moda će konačno uspjeti doći u Shamballu i sresti gurue i pandite! I Kralja svijeta. Priču i likove koje Castelli citira od samog početka serije.
Senkač, onaj Ritorno di Jasper, tamo ima nešto u vezi sa Exernsteinom (isto kao centrom SS-a i svetim Himmlerovim mjestom) i leysima. Sad Recagno opet rabi drugo SS-ovo središte Wevelsburg... Opet sjena nevidljivog orla i nacistički misticizam.
Ja se znam, al nesmem nikaj reci, jooj...
HC! je zakon, živijo HC![/b]
Žene vicu, Dee, tebe seksi trebam... Ajoooj! |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 16:21:58
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Videcemo, videcemo. Ocekujem puno od Crnog Sunca.
>Senkač, onaj Ritorno di Jasper, tamo ima nešto u vezi sa Exernsteinom
Ima, odlicna prica, btw. A i Amelija Erhart je produkt japanskog Dahaua, odnosno Jedinice 731.
A sto se Karavadja tice, stici ce mi, bar se nadam, do kraja jula, zajedno sa Specijalom, pa cemo komentarisati uskoro i to...
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 19:26:39
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Emotikon :-( je jos jedna sjajna Moralesova prica malo slabija od Amelije, ako se ove dve price uopste mogu porediti, jer im je jedino zajednicko Moralesova opsednutost za tajnim planovima vladavine svetom. Pre je na udaru bila americka vojska, a sad podmitljivi senatori i FBI agenti. Ovo je apgrejdovani, orvelijanski, Santa Klaus 9000, i cenim da ce se Djolu posebno svideti, s obzirom da je on hteo da se nahebe keve Kasteliju u Makarskoj apropo cinjenice da Marti ne koristi mobilni i ostala moderna sokocala, a bio je medju prvima koji su zaseli za komp. Morales i to objasnjava ovde;)
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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Dok Lester
Advanced Member
5078 Posts
Member since 15/11/2001 |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 22:32:47
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quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka
Svaka cast Moralesu za Ameliju Erhart. Procitao sam pricu u jednom dahu i sve bi bilo savrseno da nije Moralesovog s vremena na vreme neujednacenog crteza. Ipak, kapa dole za ovo delce.
ovim si me postom natjerao da ga izvucem sa police i pocnem citati
tek sam na pola (tamo kad amelija sretne skitnicu freda) i stvarno uzivam
i nije morales crtac ;-))) nego grimaldi :-)
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion." |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 05:25:17
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Ene vidi, mislim jedno kucam drugo:-( Stari se...
Da, htedoh reci neujednacenog Grimaldijevog crteza.
Hvala Dok.
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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Dok Lester
Advanced Member
5078 Posts
Member since 15/11/2001 |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 09:19:19
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;-)
inace, citao sinoc do 2 sata i smazao cijeli strip do kraja
prica i crtez cine jednu vrlo ugodnu cjelinu i mislim da ovaj MM odskace od svojih standardnih prica (arheologija, svemirci i sl.) - imao sam osjecaj kao da citam Lazarusa Ledda :-)
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion." |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 13:44:49
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Da, odskace. Pogotovu sto sam imao utisak da je prica nabijena emocijama, onako kako samo Morales zna da napise.
Malkice opor zavrsetak, zar ne?
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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Dok Lester
Advanced Member
5078 Posts
Member since 15/11/2001 |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 13:52:10
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da, brutalno i realno do kosti
iako svi znamo da stvari u svijetu tako stoje, uvijek vise volimo zagorovski happyend, jer ipak za stripovima posezemo kako bismo se malo odmaknuli od surove stvarnosti
kraj je odlicno napisan
"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion." |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 17:24:25
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Ovaj Ruju je neunistiv. Malo mu je sto mi seta po nervima sa svojim djubretom u DDu, pocetkom sledece godine cemo ga videti i u MMu!!! A crtez je poverne "povratniku" Tuisu.
Neka nam je mili Bog u pomoci!
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 21/07/2007 : 07:17:04
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Mozda ce te naci zanimljivim Beretin odgovor na moju kuknjavu do neba, rigarding Tajnu prozirnih senki...
Hi Ombra!
First of all, I feel strange at answering in English. While I do write a lot in English in my line of work, now it happens on Italian forums too! :B):
I have reads your doubts re: "Il Segreto delle Ombre Diafane". Let's start by talking about continuity. As yourself have pointed out, Martin Mystere is supervised by Alfredo Castelli and, at least on the "pillars" of the continuity you simply cannot do what you want: everything must be pre-approved and debated. This happened with the two key elements of "Il Segreto delle Ombre Diafane".
First, Java's brother. When I came up with the character I liked the idea, the characterization and other nuances of his personality. All of this was simply an intellectual exercise, until it turned out that Alfredo liked the idea very much too. Since I was already working on the basic storyline of “Il Segreto delle Ombre Diafane” I felt that it was the perfect story to introduce him. Alfredo approved the idea, and thus Ka-wah was born (as a trivia, his temporary name in the script was Klavah – is was Alfredo who came up with the definitive one). Filippucci did some sketches, and they too were approved by Alfredo and Carlo before the work on the story began.
There is a funny anecdote regarding Ka-wah. Of course I had to come up with an explanation about why, for over 20 years, Java had never mentioned him. This implied a serious break-up in the relationship between the two brothers, so I turned back at when Java battled “El Jefe” in his youth. The Neanderthalian colony in the city is oppressed by an evil tyrant. Java asks to his brother for help, but Ka-wah, an intellectual, doesn’t want to be involved in a civil war. The tyrant is overthrown anyway, but, before fleeing, he manages to kill Java’s wife and their young son. So, the reason of the hate felt by Java towards his brother stems from the fact that he accuses Ka-wah’s non-belligerance, to be responsible, indirectly, for the massacre of his family.
I was at the seaside, taking sun on the beach, when a ***furious*** Alfredo, who was revising the story, calls my cell phone: “Where did you pulled out this disgusting, soap-operish, lame crap about Java’s wife and child being killed?!” He was outraged at the badness of the idea.
“Well…”, I answered, “I didn’t invent the fact. It is described in… er… ‘Il Passato di Java’, MM number 112-113, written by… uh… ALFREDO CASTELLI, art by the Esposito Bros.
Silence for a while.
“Well, it is soap-operish crap all the same!”
And so the main reason for Java to hate Ka-wah was ditched.
Regarding the “End of the World Device” being activated by aliens… let’s say that, the more I thought about it (during my years at writing Martin Mystere), the more it seemed logical.
First, there was this stalemate between Atlantis and Mu, broken by an unexpected and incomprehensible event. Not only the malfunctioning of the Device unexpected, but no one ***on Earth***, not even ***its own builders*** was able to fix it. This could have been explainable had the malfunctioning been caused by someone who both possessed a superior technology and had a reason to retaliate against Earth as a whole.
Second: it must be said that the concept of “alien” in the times of Mu and Atlantis was not the same that we have today. In my opinion, bot Mu and Atlantis had contacts with intelligent beings living “elsewhere”. Time and space had a different meaning for them, and the Pleiads could have been as far or as close as Faerie, a lost colony in South America or a bordering nation. To be short, I felt that the concept of “alien” was, then, more spiritual than scientific. I do not know if I have expressed myself well, but in the original version of the script what the “Pleadians” actually “were” was expressed in a more fuzzy way.
And, third, I didn’t felt that my idea broke the continuity. Remember that the source of the whole chain of events still was (and is) the struggle between the two powers, and the struggle to be the only remaining empire in the world. The intervention of an outside force (but, again, maybe at the same time Atlantis was marshalling the ‘mystic energies from Faerie’ for a devastating first strike…) was only a move by Mu in this complex chess game.
Ironically, and this is another idea I liked, Amaterasu correctly predicted that Isemori’s action would have spelt disaster for everybody, but, like in the classic fairy-tales, it was the very steps that Amaterasu took to prevent disaster that caused it.
This leads us to two other objections I have read: the monoliths and the nature of Amaterasu. Regarding the monoliths, I can only remind of Java’s tribe lived in the ruins of an already existing and much older city – whose nature and importance had been researched by Ka-Wah. The monoliths were buried in very ancient times deep underground under the city for the reason explained in the story by Ka-Wah to Martin.
Regarding Amaterasu, unfortunately there was a change from my original script during the revision process of the story that broke continuity. As someone maybe remembers, I had written a sort of “bible” summing up both the historical and current background for “Magic Patrol”, and the one for the (never written) mini-series “Atlantis Tales” (when I stopped writing Martin Mystere I left a copy of them both to Carlo and Alfredo, so that my narrative lines – even those left unsolved – could have a reference; as far as I know they still have them).
In “Atlantis Tales” I had written down that, while both Atlantis and Mu controlled very high magic powers and technologies, Atlantis was a little bit more biased towards technology, while Mu towards magic and spirituality (I remember writing “spiritual machines” in a note about Mu). So, I imagined that Amaterasu had done some step towards immortality by fusing her mind with a machine (“made of organic-like crystals” I wrote).
When the cataclysm broke out (WARNING: what follows was in my notes for “Atlantis Tales”, but, since it has never been used, it is, of course, not to be considered “canon”!) Amaterasu made copies of herself, and placed them governing hidden bases all around the world. To avoid both confusion and the possibility that, after the cataclysm, the different copies started a war against each other (“I’m the real Amaterasu! No, I’M her!!”) she made each copy aware of the fact that she was not the original. Amaterasu also decided an “hierarchical order” for the copies. So, the one governing the submarine base was to obey the one governing where antimatter was hidden – should the two be able to contact each other after the cataclysm - since the latter was higher than the former in the hierarchy established by Amaterasu.
This means that neither the Amaterasu found in the submarine base nor the one found in ‘Il Segreto delle Ombre Diafane’ were the original one”. More practically they not even were the same copy of Amaterasu, so the one found in Java’s city couldn’t have recognized Martin Mystere at all (as, instead, happens in the published book). This was developed correctly in the original script, but, IIRC for some reason, changed in the revision, and resulted in some confusion and in a continuity error.
CITAZIONE (L'ombra diafana @ 8/6/2007, 16:24)
Instead to answer on all of these questions above, Beretta skipped them, and wrote his own story. What happened next? We read Il destino di Atlantide where Castelli dismissed Beretta's Gigante, but made more troubles in MM continuity claimed that our civilization destroyed itself. Even Russo in his Maxi doesn't mention Pleiadians, he is more comfortable with his aliens, not mentioning from where they are coming...
After I stopped contributing with Martin Mystere I didn’t really followed the developments of the storylines I had introduced or worked with. We had many discussions, back there, about what happened, what would have happened and why; this had laid the groundwork for some (I feel) interesting surprises in the MM’s universe (all respectful of the continuity, of course!). But, of course, when I and Russo had to stop working on MM they stopped. The only thing I left were the two “bibles” I mentioned, but they were written only to sum up things and clarify some plot points that I had left obscure. From the stories I read, I saw that some plot lines were changed from what we had discussed way back (is it really ten years?! :blink: ) but I honestly do not know how if this made some of the published “foundations” obsolete.
The period of Magic Patrol, Atlantis Tales, "Il Segreto del Re degli Elfi", the Millenium’s countdown and the second encounter between MM& Nathan Never was a great ride, and I was happy to be allowed to be part of it! ^_^
Vince
Malo sam redigovao svoj stav prema Bereti, no i dalje, kad se sve sabere, ja ne mogu da progutam taj gigant ni pod razno.
Sad ce Djole da slavi...:-)
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 21/07/2007 : 23:28:40
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Vau, senka, o tome se trebalo pricati na mafestu, a ne kako je fillipucci nacrtao golu angie...
Jos da je Beretta nesto rekao o caricama Amaterasu i o uređenju Mua i Atlantide. Glede ovih Atlantic Tales, tko zna, mozda ce ovo neko u buducnosti opet upotrijebiti i razjasniti senki rupe u kontinuitetu...
Ja se znam, al nesmem nikaj reci, jooj...
HC! je zakon, živijo HC!
Žene vicu, Dee, tebe seksi trebam... Ajoooj! |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 20:03:17
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Ajmo dalje:
QUOTE
Hi Vincenzo!
Hi, Ombra. Nice to meet you!
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If Kawah is new java, what is Java's real name?
No one knows – maybe Castelli does, but I do not.
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If I may quote you: La catastrofe e stata provocata da un'arma strategica appartenente all'impero di Mu, e collocata in orbita intorno a Marte. Per ragioni sconoscuite, l'arma e impazzita. Attivando automaticamnete il suo programma di attacco globale... Quote is from Gigante # 3 Gli uomini in nero, written by Castelli and you.
Yes. Notice how that report underlined how the reasons for what had happened were *unknown*. No one, on Earth, could have imagined the real reasons behind the unstoppable activation of the device.
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We know that. The war broken out, after few years of mass destruction of Earth, both powers had crossed the point of no return, made a peace, and start building chambers around the world for the future generations to reminds Earthlings what can happen to them if they repeat their mistakes. That was the founding line of MM series, right?
Yes. Which leaves an interesting question: what happened to Isemori? Amaterasu believed that the anti-matter was a weapon to be used agains Atlantis: she didn’t knew the truth (i.e. the pact between Isemori and the aliens) – and Isemori (the one who knew the truth) just does seem to disappear after the anti-matter is seized by Amaterasu and hidden in the Ombre Diafane’s city.
There was much more going on behind, of course – at least when we were plotting these storylines.
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Why would some alien specie come to Earth with only one wish: to destroy it? I mean, how many Prostetnic Vogon Jeltzs are out there? :rolleyes:
No: they came to Earth because they needed the anti-matter, not to destroy the planet. And they didn’t “destroyed Earth” (like the Vogon do in “The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy”). They “teached earthlings a lesson”. The method they choose for their retaliation was not one of total destruction, “only” one who would have guaranteed a long period of suffering to Earth’s inhabitants – from which maybe they would have re-emerged stronger and wiser. This, of course, didn’t worked at all.
My girlfriend at the time noted how in my stories there was this recurring theme of an “outside intervention” aimed at “improving humanity” – and how it always ended up badly. This happens in “La Maledizione del Sahara” with the alien device in the lost city, in “Il Segreto delle Ombre Diafane” and in the last story of Magic Patrol, where, again, the attempt by the aliens to “improve humanity” ends up in the biggest display of suffering and disaster of the whole mini-series.
While I never consciously put these ideas in my scripts, I must admit that they are there. I fondly remember the last dialogue between Martin and Leslie in “La Maledizione del Sahara”, when Leslie is sad for the “lost opportunity”, while Martin, at the end, is happier to improve and become a better men through experience, personal learning, mistakes and failures.
Trivia moment: in the original script the last line of dialogue was “…At the end, I do like adventure more” (“…Alla fin fine preferisco l’avventura”) – which was a word play between what Martin had just said and the classic “end words” of many adventure tales. This was judged “too banal” during revision, and changed into “Come on, let’s return home” (“Coraggio, torniamo a casa”)
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As of aliens: OK, we know that many alien species have visited Earth in its past and present (Kundingas, Quivevra, Nomo, just to mention a few...), and all of them made some kind of impact on civilization, if not as civilization as whole, then they made some improvements here and there. Therefore, aliens were/are playing a huge role in MM Universe.
There was a reason for this. Earth, in the MM series, has been described by some readers as “a galactic crossroad”. It was true, and when I left, we had already started to lay down the groundwork for the reason behind this (remember that Earth is “the planet of mysteries…” well, for a good reason!”) I will only say that for some alien races humanity was “part of the big scheme” while for others it was “an unfortunate accident”. All, I want to specify, grounded down in ancient myth and in scientific theories and/or speculations – i.e. nothing in the “sheer realm of SciFi”.
One key story was “L’Ultima Caravella”. There were many elements in it which I had put as a groundwork for future developments. Someone, for example, had criticized the fact that the alien probe came from “another galaxy” as “too far fetched”, because there was no need to go so far when our galaxy already has a lot of place and mysteries. It actually was one of the key points: to some alien species “space” had not the same meaning we give to it.
Again, I do not know how many of these plot threads, if any, were retained after we stopped writing.
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It is natural to assume that both powers, Atlantis and Mu had some kind of contacts with much more advanced aliens. But, we still have a problem. During 20 years of this series, there were no mentions about those contacts, and suddenly we have Isemori who made a pact with Aliens, Amaterasu who bolwed it up, and destruction of Earth by outraged aliens, as a punishment for double-crossing
As I wrote, I still feel that the reason for “The End of the World” was still firmly rooted in the rivalry between Mu and Atlantis. Isemori tried to up the ante and overcome Atlantis (and her sister as side effect) one time too much, and the breaking point was reached. It was bound to happen, soon or later, aliens or not aliens, IMHO.
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Very interesting. I would like that idea, if it was from the beginning. But, it wasn't.
Hmmm. Yes and no. First, in a dynamic narrative environment many ideas just come up during the natural writing process – and some of them can be born very late in it. Just think to the “Empire Strikes Back”: the idea that Darth Vader was Luke’s father is considered among the basic pillars of Star Wars, so it is still surprising to think that it wasn’t in the original plot of the trilogy at all (nor was the idea that Leia was Luke’s sister). Lucas said how, one day, while looking back at what he had already written “suddenly it appeared very logical” – and a modern myth was born.
When I rolled up my sleeves for Magic Patrol and Atlantis Tales I re-read all the issues of MM from number 1 to the ones published in 1994 – and I found a lot of seeds for ideas, loose connections, things never really explained and a lot of amazing material. Sometimes it was just a case of “connecting the dots”, while in other occurrences I thought “well, this has never been really explained” – and so we started thinking an explanation. Still today there are A LOT of things, ranging from where “Elsewhere” is really located to what happened to Nadia Timofeyev can be deducted, or at least imagined, starting from the very contents of the past stories – without need to re-invent the wheel each time.
[Another trivia moment: in the original edition of MM 23, pag. 59, in the caption Nadia is mistakenly called “Diana”. Reading the story we have the impression that the there is a feeling of sort between Martin and Nadia (Martin even asks her to come to America with him), and, of course, NADIA is the anagram of DIANA. One day I jokingly said to Alfredo that “if he needed an idea for “MM’s unknown son” the time that Martin and Nadia spend in the Siberian cave – awaiting death – could have been a good moment for the “scandal to happen”. Alfredo of course blew a couple of blood vessels and the question was never again touched :)
However, let’s imagine for a moment that the idea of a son for Martin was seriously on the table… see how without introducing anything new and without twisting the continuity, the story elements for him to have a son were already in the books? Many other things we developed at that time worked this way.]
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But, the first real problem caused Castelli's La citta dei cinque (not sei?) anelli, where Amaterasu became a premier of Confederation of Mu, and Kronos (not Kala) was a President of Atlantis. Real shock to me came with your gigante (which was nothing when I compare myself after reading Castelli's Il destino di Atlantide - I feel soomething like this smiley :cry:, rwady to shoot someone :shifty: ). It was like: forget about Ra-Mu, forget about Ra-Vanu, forget about Kala, Mu's satellite, now we have Amaterasu, Isemori, Peiadians!
I think that the mistake, here, is to think to Atlantis times as a “snapshot”. I think of them as a vast era in the world history, with some key players who had the powers to live for centuries, a floating geopolitical situation (think of our world in 1900, 1950 and 2000), and a lot of mysteries. Remember that “Atlantis had her Atlantis, too”, i.e. there are hints of an ever more ancient civilization that came ***before*** Atlantis and Mu, and disappeared. IMHO, numbers like “50.000 years of history” are nothing in geological times, but immense in human terms.
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Plus, for the first time you called Atlantis as an Empire. Before this gigante and after, it was a republic.
Maybe it was an “Empire” from Mu’s point of view – remember the “Imperialist Americans” of Soviet times :)
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Oh, I had couple of more objections (I know they are minor, but hey, nobody's perfect) like: what is the name of Mu's capital?
I don’t know. Actually, I had the feeling that Mu could have physically decentralized the government, so that there was not a single “Capitol” but a network of government offices and regional capitols connected in real time both technologically and spiritually – maybe to avoid the problems of a “first strike” or maybe because that was in their culture. If you accept this, then the “honorary Capitol” would have been were Amaterasu was located.
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I know that you have mentioned one of capitals (how many were there anyway) in Magic Patrol, but in this gigante there was no mention of it.
This because it was not part of the story, and there was no need to introduce unneeded complexity in an already complex plot.
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Also, I was furious when you said: ... diciottesimo anno del'era della grande aquila... I have no clue back then about which year you were talking about
Which is understandable, since I did that ***exactly*** to avoid a precise placement in time and space of the events portrayed :)
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and I have to wait to read last Maxi, when Russo explained that 18 year of Era of Great Eagle is actually 4919 year of Yod's Era, or better to say 8514 year BC, or 2 years before the destruction of Earth. It took so long to clear up that doubt.
Mainly because it was Russo who decided to clear it up. He re-constructed a chronology from the events, so you would have to ask to him for more details.
QUOTE
At the end, I want to thank you one more time for clearing my doubts (or at least some of them :B): ). I hope you will take more participation in this forum in the future.
I will do :)
Cheers!
Vince
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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Djole
stripovi.com suradnik
Serbia
11876 Posts
Member since 03/11/2002 |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 13:57:27
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Vratite nam Beretu! Hoćemo Beretu!
Čovek em odlično plotuje (ako se izuzme Prokletstvo Sahare), em je odličan scenarista.
U stvari, sve više me nervira urednička politika u Boneliju.
Martija treba da pišu Beretta, Russo i Recagno, uz uplive Castellija.
Dilana treba da pišu Sclavi, Morales, Medda, Ena i Accatino.
Nathana treba da pišu Ostini, Serra, Barbatova i Medda, uz uplive (nikako scenarističke!) Viettija.
A Brendona treba da špišu Chiaverotti, Ruju, Faraci, Piani i Massiero.
--
"We'll stop at nothing, you see. All the suffering and the death and the pain in your world is entertainment for us." |
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Antracit
Average Member
Croatia
509 Posts
Member since 09/08/2002 |
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DeeCay
stripovi.com suradnik
Croatia
21661 Posts
Member since 24/09/2002 |
Posted - 30/07/2007 : 18:13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by prozirna senka
I think that the mistake, here, is to think to Atlantis times as a “snapshot”. I think of them as a vast era in the world history, with some key players who had the powers to live for centuries, a floating geopolitical situation (think of our world in 1900, 1950 and 2000), and a lot of mysteries. Remember that “Atlantis had her Atlantis, too”, i.e. there are hints of an ever more ancient civilization that came ***before*** Atlantis and Mu, and disappeared. IMHO, numbers like “50.000 years of history” are nothing in geological times, but immense in human terms.
QUOTE
Plus, for the first time you called Atlantis as an Empire. Before this gigante and after, it was a republic.
Maybe it was an “Empire” from Mu’s point of view – remember the “Imperialist Americans” of Soviet times :)
Očito je Berettea ima podeblju pozadinu o povijesti Atlantide kad je radio i rekao neke stvari. I sad kad je Russo stavio tu Eru velikog orla za 2 godine prije uništenja Atlantide, jel se podudaraju društvena uređenja ili i dalje ostaje greška?
Ja se znam, al nesmem nikaj reci, jooj...
HC! je zakon, živijo HC!
Žene vicu, Dee, tebe seksi trebam... Ajoooj! |
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prozirna senka
stripovi.com suradnik
USA
8234 Posts
Member since 22/04/2004 |
Posted - 30/07/2007 : 20:02:45
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Pa on kaze da sto se drustvenog uredjenja tice, republika Atlantida bi sa stanovista Mua mogla izgledati kao "carstvo", bas ono kao sto si kvotao, na ulazeci u detalje. Inace pominje da je sastavio i "Bibliju" Atlantis Talesa, po kojoj bi se scenaristi morali pridrzavati kada pisu price iz vremena Atlantide i Mua. Sta pise u "Bibliji", ne znam, s obzirom da je to interni urednicki dokument, ali, po svemu sudeci ne zna ni Ruso.
Čuvajte, čedo moje milo, jezik kao zemlju. Reč se može izgubiti kao grad, kao zemlja, kao duša. Ne uzimajte tuđu reč u svoja usta. Uzmeš li tuđu reč, znaj da je nisi osvojio, nego si sebe potuđio. |
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(Post)Revolucionarni Marti Misterija
