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cronos six
Advanced Member
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Serbia
7929 Posts
Member since 09/09/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 20:56:03
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samo jedno mogu reci(nikako nesto protiv ljudi na ovom topicu).prodaja z.s i l.m.s je znatno opala odkad se pojavio libellus.ustvari posto pratim aukcije,ostalo je jos tih nekoliko broja koji su na ceni kao pr.neprevazidjeni l.m.s 4-b.crvene planine,ostalima je bas pala cena.vecina je verovatno shvatila da je bolje kupiti libellus sa perfektnim otiskom,i bez cenzure,nego skupljati stripove zbog mirisa nostalgije.
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Bob Rok
Advanced Member
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4922 Posts
Member since 11/03/2009 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 20:58:25
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Moram priznati, lepo receno. Nisam znao da se izdavastvo kod nas svodi na entuzijazmu pojedinaca. Steta... |
Ja se zovem El-Muhammed, iz plemena starih Azra, sto za ljubav zivot gube i umiru kada ljube. |
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Markos
Webmaster
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Croatia
29478 Posts
Member since 27/08/2001 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 20:58:57
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quote: Originally posted by cronos six
samo jedno mogu reci(nikako nesto protiv ljudi na ovom topicu).prodaja z.s i l.m.s je znatno opala odkad se pojavio libellus.ustvari posto pratim aukcije,ostalo je jos tih nekoliko broja koji su na ceni kao pr.neprevazidjeni l.m.s 4-b.crvene planine,ostalima je bas pala cena.vecina je verovatno shvatila da je bolje kupiti libellus sa perfektnim otiskom,i bez cenzure,nego skupljati stripove zbog mirisa nostalgije.
To jednostavno nije tocno. Ja sam npr. osobno prije par mjeseci prodao prvih 40-tak Zagora iz ZS-LMS na aukcijama po meni nevjerojatnim cijenama. Ono što je palo su MM i Ken Parker, mooozda mister no, ali ta izdanja ionako nikad nisu ni postizala neke sulude cijene. |
Trouble will find me |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:00:20
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quote: Originally posted by Markos
I meni je ovo malo ruzno citati, ali, ako nista drugo, sad bar znam kako to izgleda kad se gleda sa strane, pa cu drugi put kad se nadjem u ulozi diskutanta pokusat izbjeci ovakve rasprave, jer mi se cini kako nijedna od suprostavljenih strana ne moze nista dobiti iz ovoga, samo izgubiti. Jer, na kraju uopce nisu bitni argumenti nego ostaje upamcen taj neki tuzan i ruzan ton rasprave. Nemojte si to raditi.
Ja cu sa svoje strane pokusati iznijeti nekoliko cinjenica i komentara, buduci da znam problematiku jako dobro, a buduci da sam i prozvan.
Dado je izgubio moderatorsku duznost zato jer smo se zakacili oko prava za par Fontovih stripova, u prvom redu Zarobljenika zvijezda. Ali to je vise SAF-ovo maslo nego Dadino, nije Dado tu napravio nešto nekorektno. SAF je prvo prodao prava na 3 Fontova naslova meni, poslao ugovore, a onda naknadno, kad je shvatio da moze prodati Dadi svih desetak, povukao moje ugovore. Buduci da je SAF-u ocito bilo bitno da proda sve, ja sam Dadu zamolio da predlozi SAF-u da samo Zarobljenika prepusti meni, posto je meni on toliko znacio, a ostalo neka radi Libellus. Tako bi i vuk bio sit, i ovce na broju. Dado bi meni to prepustio, ali se nije usudio postaviti se tako prema Rustemagicu i tu sam se naljutio. Vjerojatno nisam imao pravo jer, s poslovne strane, napravio je logican potez, zasto se zamjerati SAF-u, najvaznijem poslovnom partneru, da bi ispunio zelju prijatelju. I to je cijela prica. Tj. nije, jer onda sam ja nakon toga, u afektu, napravio par krivih koraka prema Dadi. Ali to je druga prica.
Sad, zarada. Vjerojatno ce ovo sto cu sada reci iznenaditi mnoge, ali gotovo sam siguran da sam u pravu: i Libellus i Fibra su u nemalim minusima, ali, po meni, mislim da je Fibra u puno manjem minusu od Libellusa i da ce puno ranije doci na neku nulu (ako prije ne propadne, ali to je treca prica:) ). Razlog je jednostavan, iako Libellus ima atraktivne i popularne naslove s dugogodišnjom tradicijom i publikom, jednostavno radi prepreviše naslova koji tu publiku iscrpljuju, pa onda prodaja posustaje jer publika to ne moze pratiti, a oni i dalje ne drze uzasno visok ritam objavljivanja novih naslova (koje moraju opet iznova dofinancirati iz vlastitog dzepa a ne iz prodaje). Nadalje, da se razumijemo, u zaradi nema ništa loše, niti je itko od nas cijepljen od novca, niti bi itko normalan odbio poštenu zaradu. Niti bih je imao zašto tajiti. Negiranje postojanja zarade nije izigravanje muceništva, paceništva ili išta slicno što ce dežurni dušebrižni cinik dobaciti, nego jednostavno iznošenje cinjenica: NEMA JE. Koliko god neke nerviralo to što je mi negiramo, toliko nas nervira što nam je se nabija na nos, a znamo situaciju na racunu. Jebi ga, nema je i gotovo, što sad mi tu možemo? Vjerovali vi to ili ne, tako je. U ovoj situaciju ljudi obicno pitaju: a zašto onda to radite, zašto svjesno gubite novac? Prvo, to što zarade trenutno nema, ne znaci da je možda za 3-4-5 godina nece biti. Drugo, teoretski, kad bi se npr. Libellus ili Fibra ugasili, na skladistu ostaje toliko naslova koji bi se vjerojatno mogli prodati u neko krace (na veliko, po nekim minimalnim cijenama nekom prekupcu) ili duže vrijeme i tako pokrili troškove, tako da teško da cemo na kraju price završiti u minusu. Mada, i to je upitno jer nitko od nas ne racuna svoj rad, ali dobro, ostaje ti zadovoljstvo da si objavio razmjerno velik broj naslova, da si ostavio trag.
Cijene. Konkretno, podatci koje ja znam, jer sam bio direktno umiješan u objavljivanje navedenih naslova: MM giganti 1&2, MV 1-4: proizvodna cijena po primjerku, sa svim troškovima je bila 51 kunu. Veleprodajna cijena je bila 85 kuna za MM gigante, za MV 90 kn. Razlika do maloprodajne cijene ostaje trgovcu. Dakle, proizvodili smo nešto za 51 kunu da bismo prodali za 85. E sad, ako je to zarada od 3-4 puta ... Plus, ta cijena od 51 kunu je gola cijena s direktnim troskovima tog izdanja, dakle ne racunajuci skladiste, poreze, racunovodstvo itd itd. S druge strane, postavlja se pitanje cijene Kolor Texa od 250 kuna. Tu je i argument da je StripAgentov kolorni Kubertov gigant radjen u SAFu slicnog broja stranica, ali veceg formata, kosta bitno manje itd itd. Ne znam kalkulaciju kolor Texa, pa ne mogu govoriti o njoj osim spekulirati. Moj educated guess bi bio, poznavajuci aktere, sljedeci (neka mi Dado ne zamjeri): ta cijena je, uvjeren sam, realna - na osnovu ulaznih troskova. Nema sanse da me itko ubijedi da je Dado napumpao cijenu da bi zaradio. Apsolutno nikakve šanse. No, Dadin problem je, rekao bih, ujedno i moj problem: kad nešto jako želi, ne pita koliko košta. A kad imaš s druge strane iskusnog trgovca koji to nanjuši, onda si ... Ne trebam nastaviti, je li? Mozda sam u pravu, mozda i nisam, ne znam. Ali ponavljam, u jedno sam siguran: ta cijena od 250 kuna NIJE prenapuhana, a to što je vecini paprena je drugi par cipela.
Kritike. Problem je, vjerojatno, u internetu, jer napisano se cesto puta moze krivo protumaciti. Poanta je da nije svaka kritika zlonamjerna, ali može postati, recimo to tako, otrovna, ako se tako prema njoj odnosi. Ni Kruger, ni Ratko nisu "neprijatelji" Libellusa. Ali sigurno je da ni, recimo to tako, potcjenjivacki odgovori druge strane ne pomažu, pa se stvara nepotreni animozitet. Mada, ja vjerojatno nisam prava osoba za dijeljenje savjeta i misljenja po tom pitanju, buduci da nisam baš "cvecka" kad su flejmovi i ishitrene reakcije u pitanju. Ali, samo budala ne mijenja mišljenje i samo budala ne uci na vlastitoj koži.
Eto. Ode sat vremena. Valjda nije potrošen uludo.
Samo cu kvotati da post bude na pocetku stranice i tako cu raditi dok se god stranice budu gomilale.
PS Svaka cast na prvom pasusu. |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
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Kit Carson
Advanced Member
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Serbia
11593 Posts
Member since 19/11/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:03:56
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@ Markos
Pa dobro, prodao si Zagora. To Libellus jos nije radio (za sada   ), pa zbog toga i drzi cenu. Sta bi bilo kad bi Dade to odradili? Da li bi bile te cene i dalje? |
Ubrzajte Texa u koloru na 2 mesecno! |
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Tex Willer
Advanced Member
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
14077 Posts
Member since 17/09/2005 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:06:32
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quote: Originally posted by Kit Carson
@ Markos
Pa dobro, prodao si Zagora. To Libellus jos nije radio (za sada   ), pa zbog toga i drzi cenu. Sta bi bilo kad bi Dade to odradili? Da li bi bile te cene i dalje?
Ima srecu sto se toga uhvatio VC
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cronos six
Advanced Member
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Serbia
7929 Posts
Member since 09/09/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:06:43
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quote: Originally posted by Markos
quote: Originally posted by cronos six
samo jedno mogu reci(nikako nesto protiv ljudi na ovom topicu).prodaja z.s i l.m.s je znatno opala odkad se pojavio libellus.ustvari posto pratim aukcije,ostalo je jos tih nekoliko broja koji su na ceni kao pr.neprevazidjeni l.m.s 4-b.crvene planine,ostalima je bas pala cena.vecina je verovatno shvatila da je bolje kupiti libellus sa perfektnim otiskom,i bez cenzure,nego skupljati stripove zbog mirisa nostalgije.
To jednostavno nije tocno. Ja sam npr. osobno prije par mjeseci prodao prvih 40-tak Zagora iz ZS-LMS na aukcijama po meni nevjerojatnim cijenama. Ono što je palo su MM i Ken Parker, mooozda mister no, ali ta izdanja ionako nikad nisu ni postizala neke sulude cijene.
ne bih duzio,ali evo tu su bo-ove aukcije,a to nije ni priblizno onim cenama od pre 5-6 meseca.a i moja mala greska je u tome jer sam trebao napisati-dok se libellus zahuktao,a ne od kad je poceo sa izdavastvom. |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:09:54
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Mislim da tu nema i nikad nece biti pravila. Tržište diktira cijenu i dok je god onih koji iz bilo kojeg razloga nešto žele po svaku cijenu, cijene ce biti takve. Pa Extra serija reprintira sve te "famozne" Zagore a stari opet rasturaju aukcije. Sve je u manjku love. |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:11:29
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quote: Originally posted by cronos six ne bih duzio,ali evo tu su bo-ove aukcije,a to nije ni priblizno onim cenama od pre 5-6 meseca
Pricekaj desetak dana ni BO se nije "zahuktao"  |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
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Bruce Springsteen
Advanced Member
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5546 Posts
Member since 28/10/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:17:06
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quote: Originally posted by Tex Willer
quote: Originally posted by Kit Carson
@ Markos
Pa dobro, prodao si Zagora. To Libellus jos nije radio (za sada   ), pa zbog toga i drzi cenu. Sta bi bilo kad bi Dade to odradili? Da li bi bile te cene i dalje?
Ima srecu sto se toga uhvatio VC
Al se nije uhvatio VC Zagora u boji Pa prema tome Cekamo  |
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Dado
Advanced Member
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Switzerland
21068 Posts
Member since 02/08/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:49:51
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Ratko, ja svojim prijateljima kazem u oci sto mislim o njima, ne treba mi tipkovnica, internet i forum. I tebi je posve jasno da ja ni u cemu nisam mislio na nikog osobno, pa ni na globinja, a kamoli na neku djecu.
Gaston ti je pojasnio jednu jednostavnu racunicu, ako bude potrebe pojasnit ce on jos detaljnije. Markos ti je napisao svoja iskustva dok je on jos bio u Libellusu, a troskovi od tada nisu postali manji, naprotiv. Markos ti je napisao i oko mog moderiranja, tako da ja ni tu nemam sto nadodati.
Ja na tvoje pisanje nemam sto vise reci, pisi i radi sto ti volja, samo bih molio moderatore da ubuduce (a to vazi i za mene prvog) svo offtopicarenje upozore i po potrebi sankcioniraju.
Jer Ratko ako zelis pisati o meni i mojim karakteristikama otvori topic "Dado Raic govno" u svastari ili gdje mislis da treba. Isto tako ako zelis pisati o "Dadi Raicu seronji s Mafesta" isto otvori topic za to. Ako zelis pisati o Mafestu, pisi u adekvatnom topicu, ako zelis pisati o "Dadi moderatoru", otvori isto neki topic, jer sve to skupa nema veze s libellusom i cijenom libellus izdanja, kao ni kritikama i pohvalama o libellusu, vec ima nesto sa mnom osobno. Pa izvoli pisati o tome. I to je puno bolje nego da meni nazdravljas a iza ledja mi pricas kako sam ovakav ili onakav.
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Ovaj naš beskrajni razvoj pretvara nas u nešto beskrajno drugo...oslobodi me Bože slobode bezGranicne |
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rommel
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
7436 Posts
Member since 26/11/2001 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:53:31
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quote: Originally posted by Renky
Sve je u manjku love.
nije...meni nemoze nitko prodati nostalgiju u stotinama eura uspomene imam i bez da ih kupujem bilo loše bilo dobre...i nije da neke stvari nisam platio skupo - ali to je biilo zato sto volim ne zato sto sam ocekivao buduci prirast i nije mi jedini razlog pri tome nostalgija - zs i lms se furaju na nostalgiju - ljudi zele kupiti svoju mladost ponovo i to je nesto sto bi jedino rod serling mozda mogao obraditi niko drugi |
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rommel
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
7436 Posts
Member since 26/11/2001 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 21:53:58
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quote: Originally posted by Renky
Sve je u manjku love.
nije...meni nemoze nitko prodati nostalgiju u stotinama eura uspomene imam i bez da ih kupujem bilo loše bilo dobre...i nije da neke stvari nisam platio skupo - ali to je biilo zato sto volim ne zato sto sam ocekivao buduci prirast i nije mi jedini razlog pri tome nostalgija - zs i lms se furaju na nostalgiju - ljudi zele kupiti svoju mladost ponovo i to je nesto sto bi jedino rod serling mozda mogao obraditi niko drugi |
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Tex Willer
Advanced Member
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
14077 Posts
Member since 17/09/2005 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:01:27
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quote: Originally posted by Bruce Springsteen
Al se nije uhvatio VC Zagora u boji Pa prema tome Cekamo 
Voleo bi i ja da to neko odradi. I ne mora u boji,moze i c/b,samo da je korektno odradjeno. |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:03:59
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@rommel
Ne bi se složija
Odnosno nisi me razumija.
Govorim opcenito o kupovini. Iz bilo kojih razloga. Kao kolekcionar bi volija imati komplet LMS i ZSS. Ne iz nostalgije, iako san odrasta na tim stripovima, nego iz kolekcionarskih pobuda. Manjak love me sprijecava. No kod mene, na sricu, prevladava ljubav prema BD-u i prema novom, nikad videnom ili boljoj verziji starog i lova ide u tom pravcu. |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
Edited by - Renky on 16/10/2009 22:04:52 |
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Kit Carson
Advanced Member
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Serbia
11593 Posts
Member since 19/11/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:09:58
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quote: Originally posted by Dado ... samo bih molio moderatore da ubuduce (a to vazi i za mene prvog) svo offtopicarenje upozore i po potrebi sankcioniraju.
Eh, sad! Nemojmo preterivati!   |
Ubrzajte Texa u koloru na 2 mesecno! |
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rommel
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
7436 Posts
Member since 26/11/2001 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:10:29
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quote: Originally posted by Renky
@rommel
Ne bi se složija
Odnosno nisi me razumija.
Govorim opcenito o kupovini. Iz bilo kojih razloga. Kao kolekcionar bi volija imati komplet LMS i ZSS. Ne iz nostalgije, iako san odrasta na tim stripovima, nego iz kolekcionarskih pobuda. Manjak love me sprijecava. No kod mene, na sricu, prevladava ljubav prema BD-u i prema novom, nikad videnom ili boljoj verziji starog i lova ide u tom pravcu.
i to je ono što ne razumijem - loš tisak,cenzura,katastrofa prijevod , ZAŠTO? ajde da je jedino izdanje razumio bih ali starina ga ne opravdava - sve ostalo je na strani novih libellus/ludens izdanja |
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Toninho
Advanced Member
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Croatia
3825 Posts
Member since 15/05/2004 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:12:27
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Markos- skidam kapu Dveribad - stani na balun Dado R more bit sve al nije napuvana osoba vec upravo obrnuto - pomalo zatvoren tip pa zbog toga ljudi misle upravo obrnuto moram priznat da je i moj dojam bio u pocetku da je zera s motkom u ledima - eto zajebo sam se priznajem
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kad ce mirko i Slavko od prvog broja |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:14:23
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E jbga, onda cila bit kolekcionarstva ne štima. Nismo normalni i gotovo.
Ili ovako, kad san nabavija moje omiljene izvodace na CD izdanjima nisan bacija LP izdanja a i danas bi kupija po koji LP ako ga nemam, bez obzira što to imam na cedeju.
jbga |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
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Renky
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
11102 Posts
Member since 15/11/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:16:02
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Opet se ja obracam Rommelu a elektricar upade |
"Zlocin je spomenuti reci "velikani" i "umetnost" u kontekstu sa Zagorom, veruj mi..." - Manhunter |
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King Warrior
stripovi.com suradnik
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22339 Posts
Member since 10/11/2007 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:16:55
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quote: Originally posted by Bruce Springsteen
quote: Originally posted by Tex Willer
quote: Originally posted by Kit Carson
@ Markos
Pa dobro, prodao si Zagora. To Libellus jos nije radio (za sada   ), pa zbog toga i drzi cenu. Sta bi bilo kad bi Dade to odradili? Da li bi bile te cene i dalje?
Ima srecu sto se toga uhvatio VC
Al se nije uhvatio VC Zagora u boji Pa prema tome Cekamo 
In Libellus we trust! 
pitanje vremena,ali vjerujem da ce to biti samo se nadam da neko drugo to nece prije odraditi,jer ce vjerovatno kao i svi do sada nesto zabrljati
Perfektan KI Zagor=samo Libellus! |
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Kit Carson
Advanced Member
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Serbia
11593 Posts
Member since 19/11/2008 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:19:19
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quote: Originally posted by King Warrior
Perfektan KI Zagor=samo Libellus!
Ja mislim da je ovim sve receno.   |
Ubrzajte Texa u koloru na 2 mesecno! |
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Gaston
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
5935 Posts
Member since 30/07/2002 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:23:24
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quote: Originally posted by globinjo meni stvarno ide na kurac ovo prepucavanje dvojice ljudi koji su mi jako dragi,i nadasve odlicni prijatelji...
Sorry, ali nisi u pravu. Ovo nije prepucavanje nego otvoreno iznosenje neistina i nabacivanje blatom s jedne, te strpljivo iznosenje cinjenica i egzaktnih podataka s druge strane. Da netko napise da su Libellusova izdanja skupa - okej, tu nema nikakvog problema, svatko moze imati svoje misljenje za to i to postujemo. No kad netko non-stop neargumentirano prica i iznosi neistine o tome kako mi lazemo o cijenama tiska i ostalih stvari koji utjecu na formiranje cijene svake pojedine knjige, oprosti, to nije prepucavanje, nego klasicno nabacivanje blatom i vrijedjanje, da ne koristim teze rijeci. Stoga, najiskrenije, cudi me lakoca moderatorskoga okidanja na nekim drugim topicima povodom slicnih stvarcica, a na ovome su se topicu takve stvari bez problema tolerirale... Zlobnici bi rekli da je rijec o dvostrukim mjerilima, a ja cu sve pripisati previdu. Tko je bio u pravu, vrijeme ce pokazati... |
And I must be an acrobat to talk like this and act like that... |
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srdjandj
Advanced Member
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Serbia
22435 Posts
Member since 02/05/2005 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:24:49
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Steta bi bila da se ugasi Libellus, jer ja iako sam iz finansijskih razloga odustao od kupovine istih, a kupovao sam sve, znaci bila bi steta iz razloga toga, sto bi na primer mojih prvih 20 Mister Noa ili 20 prvih Texa manje vredelo ako bi oni prestali, a vredece puno vise ako izguraju do stotog broja sa pomenutim junacima, jer tada ce ti prvi brojevi biti trazeniji i samim tim vise ce vredeti. Ne mislim tu da bih to mogao prodati i masno zaraditi, nego bi mi bilo drago sto imam te prve brojeve koji bi tada bili jako retki. |
Iz Vršca stiže glas, u vinu leži spas, ko vino ne pije, taj nek se ubije!!! |
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rommel
stripovi.com suradnik
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Croatia
7436 Posts
Member since 26/11/2001 |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 22:26:35
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quote: Originally posted by Renky
E jbga, onda cila bit kolekcionarstva ne štima. Nismo normalni i gotovo.
Ili ovako, kad san nabavija moje omiljene izvodace na CD izdanjima nisan bacija LP izdanja a i danas bi kupija po koji LP ako ga nemam, bez obzira što to imam na cedeju.
jbga
kako ne znaci - skupljanje ali da bi bacio recimo trigan empire radi okljaštrenih, unakaženih i inih verzija u popaju eksu ili karavanu - e to bi bila ludost |
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